my son is being punished for our religious stance

[LiloLils]

...this is a bold statement but its how I feel.

There isn't any point to my post but the subject is keeping me awake so thought it might help to write it down on a public forum and see if I'm not the only one who is saddened by this.

Basically my DH and I are non religious. I was brought up catholic and he was brought up church of England but somewhere along the line we both lost our faith and sided with reason. Myself particularly...I have a bit of a problem with organised religion. there are personal reasons for this.

Long story short. If we stick to our guns and don't get our boy christened into either Catholicism or church of England, he is going to have to attend the worst school in the borough.

It just really angers me. Why in this day and age do we have to jump through hoops, lie about our beliefs, and subject our children to learning fairy tales as fact, in order to get them into a "good" school?

I have never been so torn about a decision in my life. I'm being pressured by family and friends to get him christened just to get him into a good school. They make me feel guilty by saying things like "do it for your child. I'd do anything for my child...wouldn't you?" It just feels all wrong.

Just quickly...I know I've used dramatic wording, but the fact is my son is unable to attend the best school in the borough just because of our beliefs. And therefore he is being denied the best possible start in life. In my mind, my son is being punished for my beliefs (or non belief)

But, if the best school in the borough only has a PAN of 30, then the overwhelming majority of children will not be able to attend it. So only 30 children a year will have 'the best possible start in life'. They have to use some oversubscription criteria and have chosen church attendance in the first instance. If there are more churchgoers than places then some other criterion has to be used to select from these.

Are all the others children apart from these 30 being punished? I, for one, don't think so.

Koyangwuti...what a wonderful post and outlook of the whole thing. Deep down I knew this but sometimes you have to be told something before you realise it to be true. I have been so caught up in everything I just couldn't think straight. My partner said the same thing to me but I didn't listen. I was in a frenzy of panic...brought about by friends and family pressuring me. I'm usually a laid back, easy going person but this whole religion thing turned me into a mentalist and an emotional mess.

I would imagine with a PAN of 30 it would be difficult to get a place even if it wasn't a church school.

You would have to live very close, mrz, but perhaps OP does.

OP, you sound as if you are being pressurised by 2 different sets of people - those who find it hard to come to terms with the fact that you are no longer a Christian believer and those who can't believe that you would consider the local school. I am not surprised that this has created a certain amount of turmoil in your mind.

Nail on head, CecilyP. I'm so tired of it all. My baby is only 6 months old and I'm fretting so much that I can't just enjoy being a mum to him.

I have decided to stick with my beliefs and sod everyone who is going to judge me. Like a lot of people have said, things change, and I have another 4 years. So I'm going to just forget about it if I can, and live in hope that things do change. If not, then our input as parents is going to become even more important. As I've already said, myself and my partner will be actively educating our son at home, regardless of what school he goes to.

tiggy I get your point that there have to be selection criteria in awarding school places, as there is with other services such as hospitals, bin collections etc....

BUT for no other service is that criteria based on religion so why is ok to apply that criteria to education alone?

Just say the RC church stumped up some buildings and a 10% donation of the running costs for a new hospital, would it then be ok for them to prioritise RC patients? Can you imaging the outcry of it was even suggested?

What if a church was carrying out charitable work with homeless people (I know a lot of them do) would it be ok for them to turn people away on the basis of their religion?

Many faith schools were set up to educate the local children, not just those that belonged to their church, they have now moved away from this and even some church leaders are starting to question it.

So can you see how it doesn't seem right that only in education can my children be discriminated against on the grounds of my religion (or lack of it)? It's not even on their religious choices.

Tiggytape, is it not a good school because the catchment has wealthy children? Is it not all a bit chicken or egg?

Involved parents, extra curricular work, great governers, well mannered children etc etc.

I'm not saying it fair but religious discrimination is different to social factors.

I think anyone that obtains a place at a school in that way has cheated another child out of their righful place.

It's wrong and no amount of justification on how your child is more important than another would ever convince me otherwise.

The School application process should be fair, without discrimination or preference.

If we all accepted our local school and were forced to do so, schools would be better.

khalese In the recent judicial review of the decision to make the proposed new Catholic school in Richmond voluntary aided so it could be exclusive, rather than a Free School which would have it's faith admissions capped at 50%, the Council and dioceses' case rested on the "desire" for a Catholic education for Catholic children versus the "need" for school places for "ordinary children" (their actual words). You really couldn't make it up.

Please will somebody explain to me why it is somehow OK to regulate admissions to a state school based on religious observance, but not access to a NHS hospital, or to streetlights paid for by the tax payer?

Why is education a special case?

It is supply and demand, seeker. In the countryside the church school will be the only school and it takes all in the catchment area. If people want a place from outside the catchment there is a list of criteria. Church attendance will be high in the criteria because they may be a family who attend church and don't have a church school. In towns there are more schools so more choice. A lot of church schools have a good reputation and people want them therefore they can set their criteria.
Parental choice of school is a myth. It should read 'parental choice if space. If the church school has lots if space they will get much further down the list of criteria and may well take every single child that wants a space. They need full schools to get the money.
Hospitals are for the ill and you get out as soon as you are better! If the hospital is full and you need one you will be sent to another. You are admitted as and when, a lot of it as emergencies. No one sits down with a list of patients that need a place next September to see if they fit a criteria- no one knows if they need a place in September.
I can't see how street lights possibly come into it!! No streets would have street lights if every house had to be a churchgoer. It isn't possible for one householder to be able to have one and the next door neighbour to be left in darkness. Are we supposed to employ someone in each street to keep out those who don't attend church?

If the school is a VA school (one that controls the admissions) then the church is owns and is responsible for the upkeep of the building/land and some capital funding. If it is a VC the LA control the admissions and the church plays no part in setting the criteria staff appointments or the RE curriculum.

Seeker No one will be able to do that because it clearly isn't ok!

Tiggy I can see you are taking a pragmatic approach, but what frustrates me is that other than campaigning against them, as a parent I have felt completely powerless in the face of this inequitable behemoth of a system.

You really need to read up on the history of education if you want to understand it.

A glance at the actual % of funding provided by the church in faith schools is usually quite interesting. I think people have the idea that the Church has a higher financial input than it actually does.

And hospitals used to be run by religious institutions too.

www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/foi/disclosuresaboutschools/a0065446/maintained-faith-schools

I think the difference between schools and hospitals is that the church often owns the land and/or the school building so retain some ownership.

I agree with OP's choice and everything that has been said but if OP is worried about it now when her baby is only 6 months, I can see her coming back and regretting later on the line, unless you are a very strong woman. I waa exactly like you and I gave in.

You can't get over the fact that the church owns the land and buildings. If they have to get out of education they would have to sell it to the state- not just hand it over. A lot of people gave the land to the church in the first place and they didn't give it to the state.

I take a diffetent stand point to some as I am not interested in being excluded from such schools. As an athiest I actively didn't want him to attend a religious school as (and I don't wish to cause offence) I don't want him being force fed religion in school. I want him to go there to be educated and encouraged to question things, not accept ancient tales as truth without queation.

To be honest, I don't think that 'worship' has any place in non religious schools either though I accept that is not todays issue.