my son is being punished for our religious stance

[LiloLils]

...this is a bold statement but its how I feel.

There isn't any point to my post but the subject is keeping me awake so thought it might help to write it down on a public forum and see if I'm not the only one who is saddened by this.

Basically my DH and I are non religious. I was brought up catholic and he was brought up church of England but somewhere along the line we both lost our faith and sided with reason. Myself particularly...I have a bit of a problem with organised religion. there are personal reasons for this.

Long story short. If we stick to our guns and don't get our boy christened into either Catholicism or church of England, he is going to have to attend the worst school in the borough.

It just really angers me. Why in this day and age do we have to jump through hoops, lie about our beliefs, and subject our children to learning fairy tales as fact, in order to get them into a "good" school?

I have never been so torn about a decision in my life. I'm being pressured by family and friends to get him christened just to get him into a good school. They make me feel guilty by saying things like "do it for your child. I'd do anything for my child...wouldn't you?" It just feels all wrong.

Virtually all of the CofE schools in our county (about half the primaries and I think about 3 secondaries) are VC. Same admission code as the community schools.

None of them are that religious. Some of the community schools are and some aren't. Historically, it's a predominantly Methodist area.

The Catholic schools are a different matter for admissions (only a handful of these) but they're also very ill thought of with poor results so only practising Catholics want to go them anyway.

I have taught in a variety of C of E schools-religion didn't come into admissions-they were village schools and served the village.

Presumably because they were not oversubscribed. The religious criteria only come into effect once the school oversubscribed.

I find it fascinating that people who are pro faith schools in general always say stuff like "oh, there's hardly any religious teaching - you would hardly knew it was a faith school" and stuff like that. But they cling like glue to the concept.

If it doesn't make any difference, then you wouldn't mind them being abolished, and the collective worship legislation being repealed, then will you!

seeker
in non selective counties, most primaries are under subscribed in years R - 3 at the moment (as the bulge is currently in years 5 and 6)

Ampfield - which I often link to - nearly closed because it dropped to 15 / 150 pupils : despite being in the catchment for Kings Winchester and Peter Symonds (no entry exams) - because average house prices in catchment rose to £2 million : but they have filled up with out of catchment kids.
They are Aided but not at all fussy!

Talkin, are you sure about the numbers bulge?

Here, 7 is the smallest year group, with numbers then increasing year on year all the way down to reception, after which numbers are due to stabilise slightly. Temporary bulge classes accommodate the extras in the current Year 1, with significant additional permanent capaicity having been built over the last 18 months to accommodate the current Year R and fuiture years - e.g. a 45 PAN school is now permanently 60 PAN, and a 1 class per year school has been expanded to 2 form. This is in addition to EVERY school being full to capacity for all infant year groups - whereas e.g. DS's Year 6 class last year operated below 30 for the entire time.

Ans seeker, in the county where I worked in a C of E VC school, there is no mention of religion in the admission arrangements for VC schools AT ALL. So however oversubscribed they were, places were allocated in a 'normal' looked after, siblings in catchment, catchment, siblings out of catchment, others in order of distance way.

The (very small number of) VA schools might have had religion in their oversubscription criteria, but in the overwhelming majority of C of E schools in that county, religion NEVER became a factor.

teacher
in Hampshire it is - London is unusual because of the high level of transience - we had the huge influx of Poles and then it has eased off . We are probably more respresentative of the country at large.

There was never a problem, seeker. Living in catchment came top so if you lived in catchment you got a place, there was no other school. If you are trying to get into a school out of catchment then I can't say. I got my DS a church school out of catchment and religion was never mentioned, I couldn't have used it for a reason, as the school I didn't want him to go to was also a church school.

I am nowwhere near London - and both the county I live in, and the county I have worked in, have the pattern that I describe. If the bulge has indeed passed, why is there such an issue at the moment with a lack of primary school places countrywide?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21785796 chimes very much with my experience, and even though some counties around us show as 'projected surplus of over 5%', the spare capacity IME is falling year on year (so schools that were running at, say 80 % capacity until a few years ago are now operating at 90 - 95% in Reception and KS1 - still 'blue' on the chart but with the surplus shrinking rapidly)

Mid wives and Health visitors in my area are warning us of a baby boom ...they are calling it the 50 shades effect

Great link teacher, very informative, thanks.

I'm in West London and all the primaries around here have been pressurised to go up a form. The one my DC attend/attended is on a very constricted site, not a blade of grass to be seen, and has had to go up to 3 forms, it's not even full and the kids can hardly move in the playground, like battery hens. While another local primary, which does have a much bigger site has gone to 4 forms, which I personally think is too big for a primary school. But there isn't time or land to build new schools and the LEA have to find a place for every child.

This is obviously going to be an issue for Secondary schools as well.

So under these conditions the faith schools are applying strict faith based criteria causing community division and bad feeling all round.

"And of course I'm offended that my son is being discriminated against purely because of what his parents believe"

The only people really discriminating your son here, is you.

You are the one who is taking away his option of attending a CofE school later on, even for Secondary.

And what will you say if your 13 / 16 year old son is asking why your principles were more important to you than him and his education.

What if he would want to be a Christian, and you have taken such a strong Atheist stance?

"In London and surrounding areas the current Year 7 is the smallest and all year groups below it are getting ever bigger, The real baby boom started in 2008 here."

Tiggy, as I say, that is also our experience (significant distance from London).

I think it would be a lot better if we didn't have religious schools. But we do. You will have to do as your conscience dictates and what you feel is best for your child.

What if he would want to be a Christian, and you have taken such a strong Atheist stance?

And what if he wants to be a muslim, or a hindu or a Jedi?

And that is precisely why a state funded educational system should NOT be based on parental religious choices! Thank you for putting the matter so clearly.

Perhaps you are failing him not because of religion but because you do not earn enough to pay school fees. Get a better job. Pay fees. Problem sorted or move elsewhere.

"And what if he wants to be a muslim, or a hindu or a Jedi? "
Then I am sure he can convert!

Xenia has a point.

There are many ways in which you are failing your child from an education perspective, the biggest is perhaps in your refusal to move to an area where this is not an issue!

I am in top ten percent of earners. I could only afford school fees of circa £10k per year by not eating, buying clothes or ever turning on the hearing.

Just how many of these high paying jobs do you think are out there?

Not a very helpful contribution to this debate. Might as well berate op for not winning the lottery.

O yes, moving to an area with great schools (and consequently much more expensive housing) is such an easy thing to do! New jobs are just lying about on street corners after all.

Some of you are a bit bonkers I think.

Quint the OP explained that due to financial difficulties she is living with her Mum so she may not be able to afford to move.

I took Xenia's post as sarcasm?

I do find it hard to understand how many supporters of faith schools think it's ok to lie about belief, all this business about it's only attendance that counts, just do it to get your kid in? Seems very disrespectful to me and I'm an atheist!

It must be the "missionary" in us, eh?

If that is Xenia being sarcastic and I missed it, then in my defence she is remarkably consistent in her sarcasm on every thread.

Mothership,

Sadly, I believe that Xenia believes exactly what she says..

(I also believe her to be a little odd, and living in a very strange North London bubble, but that's beside the point)