Undeserved bursary

[Hamstersball]

I know a child that has been offered a very substantial bursary at my dd's independent school. She has passed the academic selection process and on the surface can be very charming, able to talk to grown ups at ease etc. However we have known her for several years as dd1 and her are in the same brownies pack and her behaviour has always been dreadful: picking fights with other dc, racist and foul language, lying when confronted, bullying other children. I can only conclude that her school lied between their teeth about her when they gave her a reference to support her bursary application as several mothers who know her at school say her behaviour is also dreadful there. I'm really tempted to inform dd's school about the true nature of this child and want to know if anyone has done something similar and what was the outcome.

When I was a young man I knew a girl who came to University and was taking my course, was an elective mute. In fact she was virtually totally mute in all classes and in breaks. I found out she had spent five years being bullied at her last school ( not moved) and that in her last yearat that school she had been "sent to Coventry" as a result of one bully who controlled her class.

That was an extrme form. I guess today we would call her behaviour PTSD.

In the three years she improved only slightly. When I did get something out of her ( I was her tutor at the time) it became obvious she had once been an animated and very artiuculate young lady. Very nice girl. She went on to a Ph.D. Bullying can be devestating but the only real way of dealing with it in our society seems to be to move yourself from it.

Thats an aside btw. Not quite sure why she suddenly came to mind Sorry

So money can't buy everything. Who'd a thunk it?

"it is a good thing to be exposed to difficult people from a self development viewpoint."
I take this view when our DC's go out into the increasingly tough world of work then they will not only be "exposed" to difficult people but will be required to work along side them or have a difficult person in either a position of authority or be in a position of authority over one. Where do our DC's begin to learn these skills? At school, brownies, guides, ATC, football, uni. When I was at uni we had a girl who'd never even began to learnt these skills she was incapable of working in a team, unable to deal with those who wouldn't t do it her way. My DS who full boards cant possible like all he lives with there's 60 and they wont all like him but he has to learnt to live and work along side of them this IMO is as a useful life skill as a whole pile of A*'s.

Surely school should be a safe haven like home? I have no wish for ds to be exposed to difficult people as a child. He will spend a lifetime as an adult doing that. As a child he simply isn't equipped with the knowledge or confidence to deal with a child who bullies. My job as his parent is to protect him and nuture him, not to expose him to bullies as a life lesson.

I wonder what my elective mute student would have said to your ideas happy gardening?

Personally I take the view that young developing personalities need protecting and that there is plenty of time to learn todealwith the sh*ts of the workplace once one has a stable secure and confident self to launch from. Bullying in schools stunts that and that is why e should not apllow it - or alternatively why DC need tobe protected and moved if necessary. No one should have to learn with such low lifes. Bad enough having to work with them sometimes.

Absolutely agree bisjo

happy - my DCs don't need to be in the same class as a bully in order to learn that not everyone is nice or how to deal with them in the real world.

But if you feel that your DCs will be better rounded adults if they go to school with disruptive children who may be bullies or racists then don't let me stand in your way

Good grief! This thread has moved on and strayed right off the point.

The school has academic bursaries to give-they held tests and interviews and gave one. End of story-if the DC doesn't fit they can take it away.

It is a much better system than leaving it to parents to say-'she might be clever but she is is a nasty piece of work and she must have a false reference'-which is very subjective. Do you really think that if OP goes to the Head with this information they will say 'thank you for putting us straight, we will withdraw the place'? Really?

There is only one piece of advice-'mind your own business'. The rest is superfluous.

On the side issue: I once worked for someone of, how shall I say, repute who came to this country from abroad. Eton instantly found a place for their ds. He was a decent enough lad but not especially clever.

The bursary is a red herring, which may irk the OP but is irrelevant. After all if the child in question's parents won the Lottery the child would still be there. All OP can do is contact the school and ask for her dd to be placed in a different class.

And on a different thread, where most of the kids in the class are being disrupted / picked on by one child ........ I am being told to NOT trust the teachers, but to keep going in and complain. Oh and take my child away and change her school!

Incidentally I have been in again to complain - and what they said was - we need parents to come in and tell us, as we don't see everything / or hear both sides. Also they didn't realise what he would be like before they took him on, because they only did an interview, as strangely enough he wasn't available during term time for an assessment day, even though he was being home schooled.

OP - I can appreciate the difficult situation you are in. I would ask for your DD to be in a different class, and give the reasons why in a very sketchy outline basis. If asked to elaborate - say that she may be different in a different environment and you want her to be given the chance - but due to historical reasons you do not believe your DD nor the girl would benefit from being in the same class. Then wash your hands of it, you know you have protected your DD, and it is up to the school to deal with the behaviour.

I have been told that if I wish for my DD to be kept apart from the kid in question, then they can do this. How I would love to know, given they are in the same class ... but the offer is there! OP, if you flag up yoru desire for your DD to be in a different class before the term has started, then I am sure they will be able to accomodate you.

I feel quite strongly that when my child (and every other child in her class) had to go in to be assessed prior to being offered a place, to ensure that she met the behavioural criteria for the school, then the same criteria should apply to all students. Otherwise the parents are being given a misleading impression of the behavioural standards to the school. Some parents do have reasons why they want a calm nurturing environment for their children, and not ones where they can be subject to random unprovoked verbal / physical attacks.

I don't understand why the bursary is even remotely relevant. When my dd went to secondary school, there was a particular child we didn't want her to be too close to, we told the school and it was quietly and efficiently sorted. Actually, her primary school had already told them. Happens all the time. Do the same, OP. Your problem solved. Other people's problems possibly only just starting, but that's another story.

OP, just because she gets away with poor behaviour at Brownies, does not mean she will get say with poor behaviour at school.

You say that the Brown Owl makes threats about going home early that she doesn't then carry out. Well, of course the child continues with the bad behaviour. She's had all of the attention, and none of the consequences.

This is unlikely to happen in the school, though.

"my DCs don't need to be in the same class as a bully in order to learn that not everyone is nice or how to deal with them in the real world."
But it is inevitable that it will happen. Children bully other children there is not a school out there which will guarantee that bullying doesn't occur. The OP knows about this child but could move her DD to another child and there will probably be A N Other who bullies children. We cannot always protect our children from bullies and look for a utopian land where it does not happen nor can we run away from these children when it does happen. It is how its dealt with by the school and the children that matters.

I'm a Brown Owl. I have to say if I had a child like the one you describe in my pack I would view it as an opportunity for me to help her improve her behaviour and learn to get along with others better, not to turn up my nose at her. We do have girls with challenging behaviour in the pack from time to time and we are always aware of our responsibilities towards them as well as to the rest of the pack, but if any of our parent helpers were exhibiting the immature and superior attitude you do towards a child they would be politely asked to stop helping.

Exactly Movingtimes. If my child was at a school where the Head took notice of gossiping parents I think that I would remove my children. You expect them to make open minded decisions, which is what has been done.
I like the fact that Scouts and Guides are all inclusive.

This is a really nasty, judgemental post. You have no idea about this child's circumstances, or the reasons for her behaviour. The school has clearly found sufficient reasons to award her a bursary, good for the school. Perhaps they realise her potential and hope to channel it appropriately. It's nothing to do with you.

A good friend of mine, who genuinely is a nice person, took alarm when a child she considered difficult from our children's old school came for a taster day at their new school (our boys moved together at the start of year one). I warned her not to but she took it upon herself to speak to the head about the child and make vague hints that she and others might withdraw if this child joined.

The head was furious with her. Really really gave her what for (very politely).

happy I was committing on the post that effectively said there is nothing wrong with a child being subjected to bad behaviour and bullying as it prepares them for the real world (I've paraphrased). Ime there is everything wrong with exposing your child to that.

I disagree that you cannot protect your child from bullies. Of course you can. That is one's job as a parent. When it happened to ds I promised him that it would be resolved. Ds knows I never break my promises. It has been resolved but if it reappears both ds and the school know that I will not tolerate it for one second and expect the school to do the same.

I have removed ds from a school where he had a teacher who bullied pupils and parents and the head did worse than nothing (denied it happened despite the fact that other parents had removed their dcs mid year because of this teacher).

Thoughout the whole of this thread, there are no facts from the OP. There is gossip, school gate bitching and more gossip based on the OP helping out occassionally at a voluntary group and what her dd and other children below the age of 10 think. This has no relevance to a school situation and how a school allocate a place and a bursary. The OP can request a preference that the other child be in a different class due to how the OP feels, but she does not have influence on a much higher decision making process. OP, you will have to accept that you have no part in this process, it is entirely possible that there would be 'difficult' children in the school who you have no personal experience of and whose parents are paying full fees, you would then deal with this difficult behaviour if and when it has a negative impact on your child, not before, and not because of hearsay and gossip mongering. This is the attitude which would gain support, not obvious jealousy at what has been given to another.
My ds whispers is on a 'substantial bursary' due to a child with a mother with an attitude like yours, ds moved from a state primary due to horrific bullying (it can happen anywhere!) he had questions fired at him about why we live in a flat (shock horror) why I don't drive, the list went on, until the child realised for himself that ds was normal! I think the OP needs to think very carefully and step back from the thoughts about allocation policies and money and make her choices based on facts.

My immediate reactions to this thread was if op was to say anything to the school she might not find there is place for her dd anymore.

If it is a good school they will help her adjust her behaviour,

OP, if you decide to jeopardise this opportunity for a child, you need to sit down and have a good hard look at your own behaviour, it is quite shameful.

I've seen it all on here now

This is ridiculous. I am sure the school that has awarded the bursary knows what they are doing. I sure the girl in question could be quite a handful. Yet does that mean she does not deserve a place at the school? I was a problem child and it was a very good teacher that took me under his wing that helped me to become a successful adult.

OP I will not judge you as other have but I feel that you should be made aware that if you do go to the head it will not affect the award in the slightest. Although by doing so may well jeopardize your DD chance of getting into said school.

I hope you will sit down and take stock of the actions you will take and the reaction that will occur if you take such actions.