Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

seeker
Why are you now targetting *maisieJoe" it really did look like you were trying to trip up Tasmania, even it that wasn't the intention of your post, it certainly read that way.
BTW Did you go to a Comprehensive? Do your children go to one?

I did go to a Comp and I don't see it as an automatic solution to the educational issues in this country.

Not targeting anyone. Tasmania talks with great confidence about British society, education and class system. Then I suddenly saw today that she has apparently not lived in the UK most of her life- and is speaking as an observer. Maybe everyone knew this already. I didn't- although i knew that she qhs spent time abroad, so I asked. She didn't seem to mind- and is quite capable of telling me to mind my own business if she want to.

Maisieajoe was trying to ignite old embers. So I teased her a little.

I think Tas and seeker have about the same expertise levels on current comps...

Being blind to the class system obviously seems to help me professionally, so maybe - maybe- others should follow. According to DH and friends, us jetset internationals are in a class of their own... apparently!

However, the reason I am bit more confident about education is that I've been educated in several countries / continents... so have had my fair share of experience of "education".

Interestingly, the best private schools are very similar - no matter which country you are in. Could have something to do with organisations like Round Square. State schools differ a lot though.

Not going there again, wordfactory. Anybody remotely interested knows everything there is to know about me. So no mischief making please.

If all state schools were as outstanding as the one which herladyship's child attends, there would be no market for private schools.

Gosh..one day back at work and I am 4 pages behind in the thread.

On the whole private schools are better. I think most people agree with that and therefore more parents than not would pay fees if they could afford it.

WF, I hear you - its not easy, or always possible. But if there are a few of you, it IS sometimes possible. And its the underlying attitude that I take issue with, rather than the obviously real examples of when effecting change is impossible.

That said, if what you want includes selective admissions procedures, then obviously that is never going to work outside of the private sector. Barring grammars.

And yes, majority does usually rule. But some changes can be made in small steps, and Governors - for example - can make a difference.

I don't think being educated in several countries gives you any particular insight to British education Tas. And just because you're confident in what you're talking about doesn't preclude the possibility that you might be talking rubbish.

I lived in America for two years too. Americans do not dress well (not like the French in any event) and it's stretching a point to characterise the social pecking order over there as based on class. It's totally different from Europe.

I also hate dill. Horrible herb. I refuse to give it room in my herb patch.

Schmedz Agree with you on that. Do such schools get more funding do you think?

If I had OSH (ok that's boys only, so wouldn't apply to us) or RAA on my doorstep, I could aford the few Laboutins in future...

I want to know how you actually apply for one of these state boarding places? Presumably you don't have to live in the area or you would be a day student!
Who gets in as a boarder?

Yellow DH and his siblings were all educated in the UK. The latter in a comp before switching to a Sixth Form college. One of my closest friends went from a comp in one of the roughest part of London (estate) and ended up on a scholarship at a private school. Her elder sister didn't. They were the ideal experiment to prove the value of private schooling, which is why her parents made sure the younger sibling went private.

Knowing a lot of people in the UK does help form my opinion. Especially as I mentioned that the most relevant state secondary for us is either in special measures or just got out of it... would send DC there?

I never said the social pecking order in the US is based on class. It's mainly cash these days...

And Yellow... of course, it makes sense comparing schools at an international level, and NOT be warped into some "UK only" thinking. DCs will be competing for jobs with people who may not have been educated in the UK.

Particularly the well-paid jobs.

It is like that in my industry and that of DH. He is one of the few British employees at his company. Most of them are French, Russian or American...

WordFactory - very eloquently put. I never felt as a parent in the state system I could influence the DC school, and have seen he frustration of other parents who have tried. After state primary, we chose indie secondaries for our DC and the Dc are veryhappy and grounded. However, after a long career in business, I am now re-training as a teacher, and intend to apply to challenging schools where I can make a difference from the inside.
Re Cameron et al, they will not be sending their Dc to schools in special measures - they will be gooing to thh best state schools. I inagine those that cannot afford indie, and narrowly miss out on a place as a resut of the Camerons choosing state would agree with Xenia that it would be better for those who can pay to pay!

"I hear you - its not easy, or always possible. But if there are a few of you, it IS sometimes possible."
I've been a governor (admittedly many years ago) of my DS2's primary school and even maned teddy beat stalls I found that I had absolutely no influence over what was happening and most of the other parent governors felt as I did.
In my experience whilst I and others were struggling to make even tiny changes my DS (and others) were not receiving not it even an adequate education even if we were able to orchestrate changes it would have taken months or even years. What would you do? Frankly its was quicker and easier to move him to the independent sector and get what we wanted without any effort.

Are the Swedes good dressers?

I know we are handy with a bunch of dill (delicious herb!), but good dressers... A nation that has not yet outgrown the denim jacket....

cory I think the ones that end up in London are. One of them told me once that she dumped a whole load of her clothes at a charity shop. I was tempted to run out of the office to get there first (of course, she's tall and thin, and I'm short and curvy).

The charity shop owners were very pleased to say the least.

Xenia:

'On the whole private schools are better. I think most people agree with that and therefore more parents than not would pay fees if they could afford it.'

There are probably about the same number of independents getting the results that the grammar schools get as there are state grammar schools, e.g about 160-170. That's where about 94% get 5 GCSEs (inc Eng & Maths) and more than 85% passing Ebacc (of e.g. more than 50% entered) - the average for high attainers in state schools. It might be worth paying for but it is still only a minority of all independents.

The OECD says that:

'On average across OECD countries, privately managed schools display a performance advantage of 30 score points on the PISA reading scale (in the United Kingdom even of 62 score points). However, once the socio-economic background of students and schools is accounted for, public schools come out with a slight advantage of 7 score points, on average across OECD countries (in the United Kingdom public schools outscore privately managed schools by 20 score points once the socio-economic background is accounted for). (paragraph 53).

Sorry if I'm repeating any arguments or evidence here as the thread is very long ...

I'll get my coat ...

Schmedz

You just apply as a boarder. Some just interview the DC. Some are selective (grammar) and have a test.

Much easier to get in as a boarder rather than a day student.

Still wondering how they fund it all. Maybe the school leverages off the boarding segment? You could presumably charge for facilities that are actually used by the entire school and not just boarders?

These are NOT your typical state schools!

... what does anyone have against dill???

I rather like that herb!!!

muminlondon at the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum and I ultimately can only speak for myself but for me independent education is not all about "points"/"grades". We are lucky and have outsranding state schools with vacencies on our doorstep so are in a position to choose to pay not because we really have to (although I dont believe state ed caters for the super bright and recent research backs this up) but because we believe it offers something more than exam results and the usual extra curricular activities.

For those asking about state boarding schools: the education is free but you have to pay the boarding fee. Looked after children and forces families get priority of admission as boarders. (I assume the state pays for looked children) after that need to board and suitability is taken into account. A certain number of places are ring-fenced for boarders.

Not so useless - MOD boarding school....almost free.

qvs.org.uk/admissions_&_costs/parental_contribution

State boarding and boarding as my DS experiences are two completely different animals.