Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

Thing is, I'm not at all saying state is better than private. But: state is accessible to all, private is not.

So why not focus on improving the state schools, rather than just avoiding them (genuinely - because I can't believe that the majority of people don't care)

seeker

As said, you make that decision based on what's in your area. It just so happens that where we currently are, there are so many fantastic private schools, they tend to soak up the talent. People make huge sacrifices to send their kids there.

Primary schools are OK (and many only go private for secondary), but the closest secondary school, for example, either just got out of special measures or still is in there.

So if we lived within the watchmen area of a RAA in Surrey, for example... no question, I'd go for state as the value added by a private school would be marginal compared to what is offered by a local private school (which would not be Eton)...

Elibean

Would be great to do that, but that would take the effort of all parents, not a marginal few...

SEEKER

Catchment not Watchmen. Stupid phone.

Also, it has % of all possible points. I remember writing a 1,500 word essay during an exam, knowing that if I made sth. like 5 grammatical/spelling mistakes, I'd lose the equivalent of an A*. This is for a second language.

Tas, yes. Yes it would.

But I guess people said the same about women getting the vote...

% of all possible marks- but the difficulty of papers differs.

And if your essay was an exercise in the language concerned, then that strikes me as entirely reasonable. If it was an essay on the causes of the French Revolution, or Othello's fatal flaw, or how to strip down a motor bike engine, then that strikes me as extremely silly.

Tas - there are countries in the world where what class you are born into dictates what jobs you can do as an adult. So I wouldn't go as far as saying we are in a different league :)

Seeker

That's the thing. The exam tested both. We read similar books to those who were our age and studying in the UK, and might well be asked for Othello's final flaw, but language mattered.

You also had to decide upfront whether you intended to use British or American English. If you accidentally smuggled an American word in there, that would count as a mistake.

You were judged by how well you answered the question, but with every mistake, your points diminish.

It was tough - I can tell you that. Hence, the lack of A grades...

Frankly, I just think that's insane. And I believe in kids doing hard stuff.

Seeker - dont pick on Tasmina. I know what you are trying to do. Many many on here have views on private schools having never stepped into one let alone having a child at one!

And btw - how many of your children go to a comp? You claim to know a lot about a comp but I believe your children are in a grammar or sec modern.

Bonsoir - My post was meant to illustrate that one can pick out older Americans from a sea of Caucasians.

Anyway, at your assertion about well dressed Americans. You obviously haven't spent much time in the mid west or what I call 'Deliverance' country (the movie). Or is that me being patronising now?

...... I concede that the French and the Italians are better dressed than us but come on, the Americans and Germans???

But the Germans and the Americans have better personal hygiene than the French and the Italians.

HOA....yes, I agree, the majority care. And I have no problem at all with people finding the best they can for their child, especially if SEN are involved and not catered for elsewhere.

But....if I do end up sending my dds to indie secondaries (unlikely, but possible if the current improvements of the local state school go pear-shaped to the point of misery/danger), I shall still try and support our local comp. I'm nothing to do with education per se, but have become a parent Gov at the primary school, could offer similar involvement at secondary, or be one of the many parents who mentor older children there, or fundraise for something that would make a difference.

It does take a lot of parents to make a difference, admittedly. Locally, because of need, its happening - the critical mass has been reached, and involved, pro-active parents have started to defy years of habit and are sending their children to the local comp. With almost instantaneous effects. It just took a brave few to start the ball rolling. They got involved on all levels, and took advantage of a new academy status.

I repeat....women got the vote. Black Americans got the vote. Things change when enough people want them to, and a group get together and don't give up.

Are you casting aspersions on my personal hygiene, now, MN?!

On the whole the better private schools are better than the state schools and you tend to get a better choice so why not pay if you can afford to do so? Most parents would pay if they had a choice.

The state schools benefit from the 7% of children from private schools not being there as it gives them more resources.

grovel - I would like to know what study you base that assertion on :)

Elibean I hear this a lot; parents should fight to improve their DC's state school. But how?

What is it that parents can actually do?

You can nag your HT etc but will that really change a school's policy on setting? Or competitive sports? Or bullying? Or whatever it is that you might not agree with?

And what if what you as a parent wants doen't accord with other parents? How are you then to make headway? I know from MN that mucvh of what I value in my DC's school are considered inconsequential at best, the work of the devil at worst.

What if you like single sex education and there is none?
What if you like an academically selective school and there is none?
What if you want a certain provision for SN and there is none?

And how are you suposed to effect resources? You can't get a school more cash for smalller classes or more teachers etc.

And what if you don't want that fule Gove having an impact on your DC's education? Possible the single biggest reason to avoid state education at present.

You will note I left the Brits out of my post on personal hygiene (which was based on the square root of fuck all).

Frankly, I just think that's insane. And I believe in kids doing hard stuff.

seeker If you search this forum enough, ypu'll find posts from Brits living in Germany, desperate to get DC into boarding school in the UK for that reason. Added to this, the fact that based on their grades, kids are sorted into one of three types of school after Year 4 (similar to grammar/sec modern - just with one more school added to the mix). The parents are scared their DCs might end up in the lowest school when in the UK, they'd probably be fine.

I agree with wordfactory. People overestimate the ability of a few parents to change things.

At our primary we had a new head in Year 4. After he settled in he held a parents meeting about homework. The previous head didn't believe in homework and apparently neither did the majority of the parents. So the new head went with the majority view.

We didn't have the money to go prep and fighting to improve standards meant convincing the majority that they should aspire to my standards. That was a non starter for obvious reasons.

Anyway, if is often assumed that what makes a school unattractive to some parents can be corrected if only those parents stay and fight but what if the problem is the other parents? if the school is failing because the majority of the parents don't value education or discipline then you be pretty foolish to put your kids into that school. In our case, the other parents didn't want an academically pushy primary school but that wasn't wasn't what I wanted and only lack of funds stopped me going private.

'what if you don't want that fule Gove having an impact on your DC's education?'

I don't think you can avoid it to be honest - parents can now judge an awful lot more from the league tables with the Ebacc measure, and percentage/achieved for individual subjects. I've noticed independents in my borough entering 90% for all Ebacc subjects and only getting 50% or so through and I can tell which subjects they are failing. I can discern the very average independents from the most popular selective ones (not as many as you'd think) without knowing much about their reputation, whereas before most independents tended to get over 95% 5A-C GCSEs inc EngMaths (as do top sets in state schools).

Oh, maisieJoe- would you be very offended if I said that I visualise you as a sort of cross, determined Jack Russell terrier, worrying and worrying at a stick, even if you've got the wrong end of it?