Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

Yes, that school is for forces families but ordinary state boarding schools take anybody buy give priority to forces (I suspect the MOD probably pays in this case aswell, but don't know about this) It is a state education but a lot are selective with posh uniform and look like private schools (not always selective for boarders though)

Yes happy you are correct. State boarding school is not free private education.

(my previous reply was for amck who referenced a MOD school)

useless

Yes, certain number of places are ring-fenced for boarders, and they make it clear that you can't just sign up as a boarder for a term or two and switch to day school - you will most likely have to leave if you stop boarding.

I was under the impression that it's easier to get in when boarding - might change in the recession though...

happy

What are the main differences? Teachers, I suspect?

muminlondon, there are in a very very few parts of the country state grammars which academically do well although the other advantages of private schools are missing, but most of the country does not have those schools. Few in the state system get the results my children's schools have got which have tended to be in the top 10 or top 5 in the country for exam results because they are very very selective day private schools, North London Collegiate etc.

For many paying parents good exam results and ensuring children are educated say in a single sex school only with other clever children are not the only reasons for a private education. There are lots of others. If people find in the state system what they want and think people like I am who pay or have paid school fees for 5 ludicrous - that's fine and similarly if those of us paying fees are happy to do so that's fine too. Everyone is happy and the state schools benefit by having fewer children in then and there is no gold glow my "wonderful " children exude that state school children miss out on by not sitting next to mine in class.

I don't think boarders have to do the admissions test at selective schools. Tas, I know you asked happy but the difference is that a state boarding school is a state school albeit more like a grammar. You pay for the bed and breakfast and evening meal and care and outings at weekends. They do usually have a CCF force that day pupils can also join which is not usual for state schools.

Fees for boarding at state school approx £3000 - 4000 per term. Just checked and there are admission tests for boarders at selective schools but not sure if those with a 'need to board' have to do the test or if all state boarding schools have the need to board criteria.

seeker - you sly dog. I was intrigued by other posters hints of your history so I did a search. You got a DD at a grammar and a near miss by DS. p

Now I know why you dodged all those questions about whether you had a grammar background.

Given your background, why are you pontificating about the brilliance of comps when you are in the GS system?

And given that you have a DD in a selective school, why are you lecturing others on the evil of the selective system?

You wouldn't happen to be a Labour MP by any chance?

seeker

Not only do I have a dd at fab state school... I can see Lincoln cathedral from my bedroom window

Tasmania you referred to the American upper middle class.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Especially if you're the know it all type.

Tiff, I dodge nothing. If you've searched you know everything about my children's education. I am never anything but open about it. And if I didn't answer a question on this thread it's because I missed it, rather than avoided it. And forgive me, but I don't want to have the discussion again. If you're interested, it's all there. Fill you boots.

On some old thread, I remember someone who works at one of these places saying that they normally are not overrun with students that have a demonstrable "need to board". Some even say, it was easy for their DC to be offered a place. They do want to know though whether DC will throw themselves into boarding life (e.g. sports, extracurricular, etc.).

I'm sure from an education perspective (and other things not to be mentioned), the big public schools will continue to have the upper hand. So if you don't need boarding and can afford £3,000 - £4,000 a term for a very good, established independent day school, you may want to opt for that.

But for those who are really looking at boarding only for whatever reason (family moving abroad, etc.), I think state boarding may be an option.

MuminLondon,

That is a really interesting statistic - so it would imply that private schools in England actually do worse than you would expect academically, given the socio-economic advantage of their intake?

Or, put another way, that much of the advantage of private schools is the socio-economic advantage, and in terms of those children actually making academic progress (once the socio-economic boas is removed), state schools do better?

However, of course, there is the unavoidable fact that some parents do choose private to 'remove their children from others from different socio-economic backgrounds' ...

Xenia coy doesn't seem to be one of your more obvious characteristics. So what are these other non-academic benefits that you seek through private ed? And are you able to think of any benefits that those state schools with equal or better results than those of your DCs' schools might offer which your own schools don't? And which might mean that other parents with different priorities opt for those state schools instead? Or can you not conceive how that might possibly work?

Yellowtip

Yes, and I said that in other countries classes are often determined by income and education - which is the case in the US. Not the traditional sense as it seems to be in the UK.

And seriously? Why are you questioning whether I have any knowledge of anything, no matter how little? May I say that I have probably spent more time in the UK (nearly two decades!) as you did in the US (two years?!), and you seem to feel free to voice your opinion about the US while wanting me to shut up about the UK...

I think it's fair to say that seeker is not a 'sly old dog'. She's not hidden her light under a bushel as far as I can tell.

Sounds like another dodge to me, seeker.

I especially liked the post where you said that your DS should be in a higher set and that it just so happens that the set was at the GS

So what are these other non-academic benefits that you seek through private ed?

I do get where Xenia comes from... but I'd rather wait for her to answer that question.

I haven't been overly free about the US though Tas. I've merely said I didn't find them hugely well dressed and made the obvious point (very well known and totally uncontroversial) that there is no European style class system in the US. That's hardly being overly free with opinions on the US!!

Oh I get it too, obviously. But that's no reason for not wanting to hear it straight from Xenia herself. She's pretty direct, and doesn't shy away from too many questions (some, but not lots).

So what are these other non-academic benefits that you seek through private ed?

A much heavier emphasis on sport maybe? My idea of torture, so not something I would have wanted to pay for.

TiffIsKool

Threads have been deleted - but it's something to do with seeker's DD getting into a GS, and her DS ended up at a sec mod. 25% of the town's kids seem to end up at the GS, while 75% end up at the sec mod. It just so happens that in her town, the GS puts up a Christmas Carol concert at the big local church which is a big event in the town which the mayor, MP, etc. attend. While the sec mod has none of that, and she feels that the "whole town" looks down on the students attending the sec mod.

She feels that her DS and the other children in his school are not made to feel as important as those in the GS. Added to that, his teachers saying that for some of his subjects, the ideal set would be at the GS. Hence, she understandably (I do actually feel for her) would prefer a comp to which both DD and DS could go.

However, I do not understand how a "whole town" can look down on a school that houses 75% of its students? Do 75% of parents in that town look down on their offspring? I think someone has asked this before, but I'm not sure whether that has been answered before...

^^ I do have to say this country has a bit of an obsession with not making any DCs feel bad ever. I've never seen another country complaining about "lower grades", etc. In an ideal world, everyone would get an "A*", go to places like Oxbridge, and all be doing well-paid jobs.

Question is (a) who would do the jobs further down the line, and (b) does everyone actually have the ability?

In this world, some people win, some people lose. And the earlier you learn that, the better - would avoid those schools where no one wins and everyone gets medals. They do not reflect the real world...

Tiff you must have very recently joined MN a whole thread (now pulled I believe) was devoted to critising/supporting where seekers DC's went to school and why she choose to put her DCs in for the grammar school entrance exam. I personally believe we as parents are free to educate our DCs how we please but there are some on MN who get a little bit hit under the collar about seekers choices.
Tas what are the main differences between state and independent boarding. You answered teachers. In what way do you think teachers are different? Having spent the best part of 14 years in the independent sector and nearly 9 yrs of those in independent school boarding I feel that I can speak with some experience. I genuinely don't feel independent schools have a monopoly on brilliant teachers. As in every other walk of life there are unforgetable and inspring, the good, the average and a hopefully small minority who are frankly bloody awful. This is I believe a life lesson that our DC' s have to learn
and in particular how to manage the situation.
In most ( not all) state schools providing boarding boarders are in the minority most don't have Saturday school and ultimately the enourmous infrastructure associated with 99% full boarders and fees in excess of £11000 per term. The only one I looked at a Kent Grammar class sizes were the same size as a day grammar: 30. The school day was the same timing/length as a day school as the day chdren mostly came from villages and went home on buses so most activities finished at the latest by 5 pm. Frankly I couldn't see the point of it and didn't think it was worth the money. If your going to pay for boarding and you can afford it you might as well pay for proper boarding and everything that comes with it.