Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

Hang on there - a role model is not the same thing as peer pressure! Role models, fine, good, a great thing.

Pressure on a teenager from his or her peers is less straightforwardly so, IMO, and shouldn't be viewed as a tool by which you get children to succeed.

TOSN - hmm... wake up call, I think.

Your own ambitions, desires and talents more often than not gets shaped by everyone around you.

I like to think I was a self-motivated kid. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that I was influenced here and there by others. Subtle things that I wouldn't have seen back then, but do today. That's all it takes to make a difference.

Arisbottle that's great for them, but not all DC are self motivating.

But if you think peer pressure be it negative or positive doesn't exist that's up to you

I said the exact opposite of that. I said peer pressure exists wherever there are peers, if you care to read properly back.

Tasmania, I trained as and worked as a secondary teacher (though - thank goodness- I now work in adult ed). I never dropped a grade for someone who had done well, I always, always gave children the Mark they deserved (and I still Mark exams - it's very rigour us). The teacher who did that to you was so way out of line that the line was invisible!

Pressure on a teenager from his or her peers is less straightforwardly so, IMO, and shouldn't be viewed as a tool by which you get children to succeed

Then we have to agree to disagree. And I leave you with my father's fav sayings - 'iron sharpens iron' and 'bad company corrupts good mind'

nit positive peer pressure and role modeling work in exactly the same way.

Indeed, a good role model can be a peer. Perhaps one of the best.

This is how culture works, no?

TOSN by exist I meant that you do not think that peer pressure is capable of influencing a child. You said you were optimistic about your DC not being influenced and someone upthread was not optimistic about their DC.

So you must think that peer pressure does not have any influence whatsoever.

I hold my daughters in slightly higher esteem than to think or expect that they will go through life doing 'the norm' or the minimum. What a depressingly pessimistic way to think about your children, and in what low regard you must hold your own parenting

There

I like to think I was a self-motivated kid. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that I was influenced here and there by others. Subtle things that I wouldn't have seen back then, but do today. That's all it takes to make a difference

Ditto Tas. A bit baffled that some poeple think that being a good parent is enough and the wider community/peers has no impact on children.

Teachers constantly rely on positive peer pressure.

I must admit that I wasn't very influenced by peer pressure - but God it was hard. I was the incessant outlier. Horrible!

When I got to university and my peers were like minded it felt like coming home.

I do think peer pressure exists. I do think it can influence a child. I do think one of the responsibilities of parenting is to acknowledge, and, where necessary, counter it.

The leap in logic between your two paragraphs in your 13.54 post is quite a large one, socareless.

I think you need to be an incredibly strong person to not want to belong especially as a child. Its a human trait to not want to be an outsider, the odd ball etc.

At a conference in the U.S., I was told the 3 Ps of childhood were:

Parents, Peers, Perception

The parents are most influential in the child's early years, but soon, they will be overtaken by the child's peers. Until the child forms his/her own perception of the world around them (and their place in it), their peers will have a huge influence on their life (much more so than parents!). It is understood that the child will only get into the "perception mode" when they are well into their teenage years...

... by which time, when the child had a rough peer group, it may be too late.

Do only 14% of school leavers go on to tertiary education? That seems terribly low. Are you sure 50% of university places go to privately educated children, Maisie?

My three are privately educated, there are plenty of lovely families but undoubtably are fair percentage are very snobby and are buying a peer group. They see nothing wron with that and don't try to hide it. I'm sure those posting here don't take that attitude, but I'm surprised by the defensiveness over it.

The majority of families are also affluent, they often work very hard to afford the fees and uniforms, and may not feel affluent after paying, but simply being able to do so makes them statistically affluent. MN is pretty much the only place I've come across the denial that private education is, on the whole, only available to the privileged.

well I am sorry TOSN if I mis read your post, but when you say things like

What a depressingly pessimistic way to think about your children, and in what low regard you must hold your own parenting it appears you have no understanding of peer pressure and what the poster you directed that comment to is facing.

Succumbing to bad pressure has in some cases little to do with bad parenting.

My DCs do two hours of homework each night. This often consist of researching a subject ahead of the lesson so, instead of listening to him talk, the teacher leads a class discussion during lesson time.

I suspect that many of the Homework is the Work of the Devil Brigade are among those would suggest the A* are handed to kids at our school on golden plates.

HesterBurnitall

I don't think they deny that private education, on the whole, is only available to the privileged.

It's just that a lot of people who complain that is so, are those who make could afford it, but are not prepared to make the sacrifices. Hence, they often use the argument of them not being wealthy enough, and others are too privileged, but yet, they have a nice big house, holidays and more often than not, a SAHM...

Plenty of privately educated kids have two working parents to be able to afford school fees. Yes, they will be better off than the national average... but they work hard to be able to do what they do.

Well, I just think that children face peer pressure of all kinds all through life, as I've said, and that even if you had them at a school where there was a lot of pressure to do well, you wouldn't be out of the woods as far as other undesirable pressures were placed on them by their peers - and it would be naive to think so.

And I also think that it's not just a done deal that if not everyone wants to, or can be, a high achiever in a given environment, nobody will or can strive to achieve highly. And possibly if that child is also pleasant and kind or has other positive attributes, who knows - the 'rough' children might even lay off beating them up despite this. And to think this can't happen is a bit depressing and fatalistic.

I agree that no one gets given a whole string of A*'s just by going to a private school or grammer. The DC's will have had to work very hard for them.

There is a general expectation by the parents, teachers and the students that the students will work hard. (usually)

. Of course I meant to write grammar

Hester - if you are well off then of course you are privileged. Unless your DC is on a.generous scholarship and or bursary then it goes without saying that only well off people can afford £15k x n kids x years. It's a matter of maths. What is there to deny? So I'm a bit about your comment about MN being the only place where people are in denial.

Yes they may lay off and pick on another person but who knows what effect the beating and name calling has had on the child. If it makes them stronger then good.

But I do not know any parent in their right minds who can intervene by changing schools who will go I have faith in my parenting you will be fine and watch as their child gets beaten up.

TotallyBS - I think Hester is saying that because she sees a lot of those posts where those who do send their kids to private school tend to have to defend their position on MN... which happens a lot.

It's not denial that one is more privileged than others. It's more the fact that about 90% of the population seems to think we're married to footballers or the like, and have nothing else to do than straightening our hair like the spoilt Kardashians...