Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

Ronaldo - Ah, yeah... friends have warned me about the ever-changing policies. Didn't think about that!! That is quite stupid.

Wordfactory And what about all the poor independent schools that are endlessly refered to on MN? Do they too give out these golden plates of As?*

It appears they do on MN. . I have had a good laugh on this forum reading the coping mechanism of some people.

I have a great deal of faith in my DC, but Iam aware that teenagers are often easily led by peers. I am not sufficently arrogant to believe mine will be immune to peer pressure.

I am also aware that it is just a much nicer experience to be surrounded by like minded people.

I know it's a different issue, yes - I guess I'm saying it's an offensive one to all exam-taking DC no matter what is behind it.

And no, of course I don't leave my children to do as they please socareless - I am just more optimistic than to think that they can't achieve unless surrounded only by high achievers.

What (or who) are the 'would be predators' in your analogy? It's not quite clear.....

To me having good exam results basically handed to the children on a plate takes away much of the sense of achievement. They probably kid themselves that it doesn't though

Dromesday please please, explain to me how this works ?

'What would entice someone ( who currently pays) to put their child into the state system?'

Academically selective schools where children are stretched rather than left to coast and an A is considered disappointing if they're capable of getting an A*.

But where there are peers, there is peer pressure, no? It just might be for different things at different times in different places, but you can't prevent children from ever encountering it.

Peer pressure to achieve very highly, to be thin, to be attractive, to be popular... I don't believe any school has only one kind of peer pressure, and that's the pressure to be a good egg and work hard.

Better, surely, to acknowledge there will be pressures of one kind and another throughout school and throughout life, and to work with that.

nit I don't think most DC need to be surrounded by all high achievers. But it is much nicer if they can surrounded by high aspirers.

That said, IMVHO, certain outliers do better in highly selective education.

Predator may be the wrong choice of word, but in the instance mentioned on this forum it could be disruptive children and children with parents that have different aspirations from me. From experience children that fall into this category are usually very influencial as they are really not interested in learning so have more time to play up in class.

I'm not sure about the 'optimism or having little faith in ones children comment' because most people that I have encountered with such dismissive attitude towards protecting ones children are ususlly the ones with the trouble makers hence their lack of understanding.

There are pupils who can be described as being given A on a plate , although it is not so much that they are handed anything but just academic success comes easily to them. My DSS achieved straight A at GCSE ( as far as I can remember ) and is on track to achieve similar at A Level. He has hardly broken a sweat.

My own son is on track to do similar at GCSE simply because his special needs mean that he has a photographic memory and he doesn't socialise much so studying is no hardship .

I would imagine top selective schools are full of students like this, not exclusively so but they will be there.

For what it's worth I imagine my stepson is going to get a huge shock at university - or at least I hope so.

My second daughter has to work much harder to almost achieve the same .

All of my children at state schools are surrounded by other aspirational children and families .

I think there is a tendency to compare the worst state schools with the top independents .

I am not going to claim that my children's comprehensive or even my son's grammar can compete with the top independents in the league tables. But I do not think that my children would have done much better at an independent . The only way they miss out is not having the same level of sports or extra curricular activities on site. But we can provide that for much less than £100k a year and we get to support our local schools .

I htink life is much more pleasant if you're not surrounded with those at odds to you.

At university, everyone wants to be there. They have chosen the course etc.

At work, everyone wants to do a good job and is interested in it. If not, one moves. One tires to fidn the conducive environment.

If one sings in a choir, one assumes everyone likes singing and values the time there...

I don't see why school should be different.

But where there are peers, there is peer pressure, no? It just might be for different things at different times in different places, but you can't prevent children from ever encountering it

I agree, but if the dominate peer pressure is one of disruption, low aspiration, uncool to be smart etc then I do not want my DC surrounded by that.

Narked my DSS and DS are just not the kind of boys to settle for an A. They have friends who are very similar . Only one went to a selective school .

TOSN

I don't mind DC succumbing to peer pressure of doing well academically and in life.

I do mind DC succumbing to peer pressure of having to be lazy to avoid looking uncool, and therefore forego many opportunities in life.

Just like with schools, even with 'peer pressure' some are better than others. Peer pressure doesn't stop in adult life. It's just that you are more prepared for professional jobs if you were a child who succumbed to the first type of peer pressure I quoted.

I'Ve said this elsewhere.

My dh is a GP, money isn't much of a problem. But we've chosen state (I was educated in the state system, dh in a NI grammar which required "contributions" so a kind of half way house).

Our overriding reason for choosing state is the excellence of the provision (though ideologically we're not keen on private), as our 3 dc are educated bilingually by the state system. This simply isn't available in the private sector. The academic advantages of a bilingual education are huge, and that's what we've chosen. It's probably impossible to buy the education our dc get from their state school.

Yeah, my trouble-making children. That'll be it

dominant not dominate

I don't mind DC succumbing to peer pressure of doing well academically and in life

Shouldn't they want to do well academically because of their own ambitions, desires and talents? Not to compete with a friend? That shouldn't be something which comes from their peers, IMO. I don't want mine to do anything because they think it's 'cool', whether that's singing, dancing, maths or popularity. I want them to do it because they think it's right.

Yeah, my trouble-making children. That'll be it

No TOSN, you know your DC and I don't. Just making my own observation. I know very few people that think like you do, and the few that have made the sort of comments you have made usually have very badly behaved children they don't even see it, they think its all part of 'the experience' of growing up.

ONE QUESTION I HAVE is... how do you deal with teachers at schools where ability is more mixed? From my own personal experience, if the ability in class varies by too much, the teacher focuses on the lower tier.

I still remember once having been told by a teacher that he did not want to give me an 'A' despite my exam grades, etc. because in a class where everyone got C's or below, that would make the other kids look bad. Because if an 'A' was achievable, questions would be asked as to why other kids weren't like me. And this was at what would be considered a grammar - obviously not selective enough! I felt rotten afterwards, but luckily another teacher figured that out, and bumped up my mark in her subject instead.

So given what I've experienced, I have NOTHING against highly selective, fee-paying schools, where I'm sure the above would not happen.

I actually absolutely hate the political correctness that has engulfed us these days...

Right oh

Positive forces, wherever they come from can only be a good thing for DC.

Only on MN could positive role modeling and peer pressure be questioned as a Bad Thing. .

Shouldn't they want to do well academically because of their own ambitions, desires and talents

I wish that were possible. But if you think peer pressure be it negative or positive doesn't exist that's up to you. People go on about positive role models all the time especially in the BME community. I guess they are wasting their time.

x posted with Word. Very strange in deed.

tas I think mixed ability can work very well where rigorous and flexible setting is in place, and class sizes are very small.

My DD attends a school like this and it is brilliant. But it costs a lot of money to runa school like that.

And it might not, even with excellent resources, be able to cater for the academic outliers.