Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

Yes they may lay off and pick on another person but who knows what effect the beating and name calling has had on the child. If it makes them stronger then good

Entirely possible, of course, that no beating up or name calling happened at all... just putting it out there....

But I do not know any parent in their right minds who can intervene by changing schools who will go I have faith in my parenting you will be fine and watch as their child gets beaten up

Again you're making this leap from a possible environment where not everyone is academic into 'beating up'. And of course I wouldn't 'stand by and watch' while that happened, for goodness' sake

TOSN is alright I doubt if we will see each others point.

kudos to your DDs though. It is tough for children these days. Too many negative influences. I think that anyway.

Anyone who thinks that peer pressure is not relevant is bonkers! For teenage boys who want to belong, whether that be in a school house or a gang it is one of the most important parts of their lives.

I know if I had a choice of good or bad peer pressure which one I would choose.

And do most of you have long meaningful chats over cups of coffee with your middle teenage sons on a regular basis? Maybe they chat about the girl they are interested in asking out or some issues around their homework and what is cool and school and of course the taste of beer they just had last weekend or worse....

Teenage boys are famously cagey about what they are up to, what they are really thinking and just what is going on in their lives. Hopefully (!!) they will grow out of it....

TOSN it's... and

each other's point

Because I went to a private school (premiere league, but not at the top "public school") and wouldn't inflict that on my kids.

"It's just that a lot of people who complain that is so, are those who make could afford it, but are not prepared to make the sacrifices. Hence, they often use the argument of them not being wealthy enough, and others are too privileged, but yet, they have a nice big house, holidays and more often than not, a SAHM...

Plenty of privately educated kids have two working parents to be able to afford school fees. Yes, they will be better off than the national average... but they work hard to be able to do what they do. "

I definitely agree with this. Last paragraph is definitely us. And if I had been a SAHM - well, we would not have been able to afford the fees.....

No, I don't suppose we will - but if you could accept that this beating up business is not so widespread or inevitable as you suggested, that'd be nice!

I disagree again, just because my DC haven't been beaten up doesn't mean that it isn't happening or widespread.

I didn't say getting beaten up never happens - in any kind of school - but I don't know where this 'widespread' thing comes from?

People's experience maybe? My DCs haven't been beaten up but they have seen other DC get beaten up and I don't know how to measure widespread. I guess if you don't know anyone who has ever been beaten up or your DC don't come home with such tales then it is far removed from you and it seems like an exageration when someone with your opposite experience starts talking about widespread physical attacks and such.

TOSN and socareless

You guys make me .

DH as an academic child was not beaten up at state school, but his state primary school teachers actually had a meeting with his parents, and asked them to move him to a private school as they felt the state system couldn't support him properly (I think they used the term 'wasted', but am trying to be more PC here), and the local comp was so crap it was even in the newspapers.

However, SIL was bullied at that comp...

Got to go now. This has been enlightening.

I do think there is a denial of privilege. Maisie, not to pick on you, but you say if you'd been a SAHM you couldn't have paid the fees, yet being able to allocate one income to fees is privileged in and of itself. Lots of families need both incomes just to cover the basics.

I don't feel the need to defend our decision, Tasmania, it's what we went with. Despite choosing as we did, I think seeker, TSON, Russians et al make a lot of sense and highlight many of the aspects of private schooling that give me pause for thought.

I am concerned to keep reading that 93% of the population apparently can't afford to send their children to private schools and are 'ordinary' people. Is this based on the fact that 7% of students attend private schools?

Attendance and choice of whether or not to attend are not the same thing...it is fairly clear that many on this thread COULD afford the fees but choose not to spend them in that way. Fair enough...different strokes for different folks.

Chatting with a rather wealthy mum today whose 3 are all in state education. They own two London properties (in expensive postcodes) and have lovely expensive cars and take fabulous holidays. Fantastic (privileged) person with her family in the state system. She surely can't be the only one!
Her children currently attend a state primary with an appalling reputation...does that make her more 'ordinary' than our family who have nowhere near the income but choose to spend what we do have on private education?

Schmedz

No, loads of wealthy people opt for state, if there is one in their area that is good enough for them, and it fits their child.

In some other thread, months ago, I did dig out statistics... (it was something to do with Oxbridge still preferring private school kids).

The weird thing is although on average only 7% attend private schools, this increases massively at Sixth Form level - which I assume is the pool universities can choose from.

And when you then look at percentage of A*/A grades obtained by private versus state schools (with better grades achieved by private schools), it turned out that Oxbridge admissions are actually biased a lot more towards state school students.

Didn't stop the leftist people moaning though...

Sometimes, people won't be happy unless you tell them exactly what they want to hear.

Dromesday still hasn't reappeared to explain how these A*s get handed out practically, DC are in private and we haven't got them yet! perhaps they missed school on that day

I have been thinking further about seeker's comments about people being uncomfortable with the idea that they are privileged...I am pleased I have the privilege to afford private school fees (not as easy for us as many in our children's school, but possible easier than for others there). You clearly need to be in a certain income bracket for the vast majority of private school places (apart from the rare 100% bursary place student!) but it bothers me that some similarly privileged individuals/families who choose to send their children to state schools seem to think they somehow are not and are perhaps more 'ordinary' (and less 'snobby' or 'hurrah Henry' types). There are also many without privilege who bitterly resent those with.

Bottom line...most of the ambivalence about private vs state / state vs private stems from extremely unhelpful and inaccurate stereotypes! Are we really all so ignorant as to buy into these?

It also stems from our own experience. I was educated in both state and independent schools and much preferred the private school which had far higher standards and stretched me beyond anything I had ever experienced before! Other people have hated their indie school experience.

The first thing we did in teacher training was discuss our individual school experiences and in a tutor group of 20-25 people there was very little overlap! What I learnt from this was that everyone seems to assume their own experience is similar to that of others..whether we realise it or not.

Clearly the thing we all share on MN and probably well beyond is a fervent desire for our children to get the best education possible and for them to have the best opportunities in life.

Lets have some more [love], [peace] and and put on our rose coloured glasses (or have some rose coloured ).

Dromesday still hasn't reappeared to explain how these As get handed out practically*

I think ( if I may?) this littlegem has oft been rolled out as a result of the days when GCSE and A level were between 50 -100% coursework and it was reported in the newspapers that independent schools were getting the teachers to do the coursework for the pupils!

IME that was never the case - although I did come across it in a number of state schools ( and I am sure that some reports from the private sector did have a modicum of truth).

However, without coursework the gap between good private schools and state schools has increased - so what are they now? Exam Mills? Again IME, that accolade goes to tate schools who set target on target and run staff ragged.

What it comes down to is that the ability and motivation ( especially the latter) to do well educationally is found in independents ( and I still think in most cases a degree of good teaching or maybe one should say appropriate teaching there too)

I'll have a - thanks !

BTW even if it's not 93% that cannot afford private schooling I bet it's over 80% say.

It's slightly annoying when people don't accept the reality of other's lives.

As I said I'm happy with my DC's schools though - I feel fortunate

Dromesday doesnt dare to come back - making a daft statement like that!

Has anyone thought that the examiners might have a bias themselves? Looks at a paper from a private school boy and marks it HARDER because of course they have had it easy? Do examiners even know when they are marking a paper where the pupil goes to school?

Cannot wait for the A* to fall through the letterbox in August without DS having done NO work for exams. It has all been worth it!

[Schmedz]

But you can see it from another perspective, too. I don't understand why here in the UK "middle class" is seen as posh. Or snobby. Or both.

Middle class is just that - the middle.

Below it you have the working class, and beyond that is the upper class. No one seems to 'make fun' of either. But when you're middle class... oh no! The comments you get...

Some of my friends who happen to live in another country have WAY more money than us. In their own terms, they regard themselves as middle class, some even 'upper', but over there, it is not something people smirk about. It's something people ASPIRE to. No need to hide yourself then.

Maybe that is why you think people are in denial?! Here in the UK, it is almost a sin to admit you're middle class, and have more money than the working class population, but yet not as much as those who can just squander their money away as they please.

People who are 'middle class' may be more privileged than the working class. But they are by no means 'privileged', as you would call it in other countries (which would be upper class here).

I am comfortable being privilege. I believe DJ and I have worked very hard to get here. However I am very uncomfortable with the envy and almost outright hostility of some posters. As far as I am concerns anyone living on the UK is privileged. Whether you can afford private Ed is a matter of choose your,career wisely, plan well and more importantly choose your partners carefully.

Hester - the point I am making is that I have made a choice - work full time and I can afford the fees. Not work at all and then I cannot. As I mentioned previously you need to earn about £100k to be comfortable paying fees. I am of course assuming no help with the fees from GP's, bursaries etc.Of course the more children you have the more £100k becomes £150k and so on.

You make your choices and do the maths. The issue I think is that some people choose to have 3+ children, choose not to work, and then wonder why they cannot afford things that others have. Most strange tbh.

Some previous threads dont seem to have a clue how to work it out. As in 'Can I afford school fees' . It depends on your outgoings. Sit down, list them out and then see what is left over. its a bit worrying that some people cannot even work this out. And of course everyone's outgoing's are different. A thread wont tell you whether you can afford it or not!

Excuse typos and grammatical erro

Enjoy your drink, Juggling!

What is also annoying is when there are different reactions to privileged people, depending on what educational choice they have made...those who choose Independent are 'snobby' but others who choose state somehow are not. Obviously not everyone thinks this way, but there are certainly plenty on this thread who do. (And let's not even go to the snobbery between GS/ high-achieving/low-achieving/ particularly located state schools!!!!)

You have inspired some new potential threads : count my blessings.

Maybe we should also have one 'judge not lest you be judged!'