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Education

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What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

999 replies

TinTinsSexySister · 19/02/2013 14:59

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

OP posts:
Hulababy · 21/02/2013 11:45

Teachers don't really get 13 weeks holiday. That's naive to believe do. They get 13 weeks of non contact time. They are expected to use some of that time to plan, prep and assess your children's work.

Dromedary · 21/02/2013 11:56

Yes, that's true, but they don't spend 8 weeks on it. Even the most conscientious ones (and some are not) end up with way more holiday than anyone in any other job.
They also do tidying up the classroom at the end of term in school hours, while the children are sat in front of videos several days in a row (at least in our school).

ReallyTired · 21/02/2013 12:11

Dromedary, how much do you pay for one day of childcare? How much do you think a working parent should pay towards the cost of their children?

I paid £20 for a county music day which lasted from 9.30 to 5pm. In the present climate subsidises have been cut. A couple of years ago a county music day used to be £10. Our local gym club which is entirely private runs a playscheme which is 10 until 3 for £13. (ie, 5 hours care)

Prehaps there should be better wrap around care for existing playschemes rather than extra school. That way the children of working parents would not get bored.

Why should some children lose out on the chance to do nice holiday activites just because their parents work.

Hulababy · 21/02/2013 12:19

Dromedary - I know plenty who do a lot of work in the holidays actually. But there always are going to be some either end of the scale, especially if you add in exam marking and moderation.

Mind if teaching such a doddle - well no one is stopping others from going it after all? You'd think we'd be overrun with qualified teachers who want to stay in the system when it's such an easy life wouldn't you???

Hulababy · 21/02/2013 12:21

No tidying up with videos on in any s school I've worked in either secondary or primary. Yes I've seen videos but only partial and with teachers sat with children.

Feenie · 21/02/2013 12:32

You do realise teachers are not actually paid for their 'way more holiday than anyone else', don't you?

You sound quite jealous, btwGrin

BigSpork · 21/02/2013 13:32

There a lot of variants in the US system (speaking as an American).

My elementary school was "year round" - the school year started in July, was 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 5 weeks off in the summer. I preferred the system. My parents also preferred due to being able to do off peak holidays Grin.

My junior highs & high schools were both more typically American - short week for Thanksgiving, short time off in December and for Easter, and a long summer. For the high schools, they pretty much lined up with the community college so advanced kids in higher grades could take classes there and the vocational training school for those students as well which was the only real benefit.

I knew people who went a junior high and high school that ran on tracks due to size of building versus population that meant 2 out of 3 tracks were in at once, it was quite complicated.

And the privates had different system, mostly because the ones in my area had all been religious so the Catholic ones had a lot of the saint days off and and the Jewish one's school year tended to start and end later due to the High holidays that are around when most school start. There are state school in those areas and there holidays tend to be adjusted so there isn't as much clash.

Discussion about new systems could probably be helpful but getting real change tends to take a crisis moment (like the track schools, most went back to 'normal' after a few years as the complications gave way to complaints that gave way to funding for more space).

DadOnIce · 21/02/2013 13:33

Comments like the "way more holidays" one above are exactly why I keep banging on (somewhat boringly Grin) about the financial implications of extending the term. It's in the knowledge that there will be a few light-bulbs going PING over a few heads, as realisation dawns that teachers' pay is worked out on a pro rata basis. Therefore, if you want them to work extra days, you've got to pay extra days.

Starting salary for a teacher is £23,010. That's on the low side compared with other graduate professions - and that's partly because it's based on a working year of 39 weeks. If it were not, the starting salary for a teacher would be 25% higher.

wherearemysocka · 21/02/2013 15:59

Yes, teachers have more holiday than most other jobs. That's the terms and conditions of their employment. I think anyone who drones on about how teachers get so many more holidays than people who work so much harder should in addition mention their own salary, annual leave, bonuses, flex time arrangements, any other little perks like staff discounts etc so that teachers can point out that there are people who work far harder than them for much less.

Some people have more perks in their jobs, some have fewer. But you choose to do a job for (among other reasons) the terms and conditions of that employment - some jobs pay well, some are interesting and linked to your degree, some are creative, some involve travel, some get more time off. That's your choice, you take the rough with the smooth, you don't like it, you do something else instead. No point whinging because someone else has something you would like yourself. Become a teacher if you want all those lovely holidays so badly.

ByTheWay1 · 21/02/2013 19:37

I have way more holidays too - as a Mid day supervisor.... and no work to mark etc.... the wages are pretty poor, but the work life balance is stunningly good!

If you want me to work extra days you have to pay me more too, and the cleaners, and the caretaker and the lovely ladies in the office and the TAs - as well as the actual teachers..... I love the way it is all being talked about as if teachers are the only ones who would be affected.

Who is going to be paying all the extra money that all these extra days will need.....

nagynolonger · 21/02/2013 19:54

There are perks with some jobs. Staff at Tesco etc get a % off their shopping after they have worked there for a while.

Teachers have other perks other than holidays too.

Feenie · 21/02/2013 20:09

Go on, enlighten us as to the rest - you know you want to Wink

nagynolonger · 21/02/2013 20:17

I didn't bring the subject of perks up!

IwishIwasmoreorganised · 21/02/2013 20:55

Surely a huge perk of being a teacher is getting to spend all day with our lovely dc?! Wink

Feenie · 21/02/2013 20:59

Teachers have other perks other than holidays too.

So you are unable to substantiate your comment then?

wherearemysocka · 21/02/2013 21:23

Ummm...sometimes the kids bake things and give you some? Although I'm not sure if that's always a good thing. I got a chocolate orange last Christmas. I can name all the members of One Direction and know that Tom Daley is, like well fit. Or sick, which is also a good thing.

Financial perks, less so.

Feenie · 21/02/2013 21:30

Indeed! Holidays are the only proper perk, I reckon.

EvilTwins · 21/02/2013 21:32

The exhilaration on the last night of the school play. Can't pay for a new car or a holiday with it, but it was worth more than a banker's bonus to me [old softie emoticon]

Feenie · 21/02/2013 21:37

Awww, EvilTwins, I am not counting those. They are reasons we do the job (there have to be lots of those for those of us who stick it!).

We could maybe have a separate thread for them, but they are not perks. Oh no.

EvilTwins · 21/02/2013 21:46

OK then...

Nope, can't think of any.

Feenie · 21/02/2013 21:56

You are right though - there are other major, major plus points, like yours - there have to be, or we would be mad to put up with half of what we do. Didn't mean to squish you Smile

LaBelleDameSansPatience · 21/02/2013 21:58

If I can't count the class play .... hmmm .... I got a bottle of wine at Christmas - a really kind thought, just a pity I don't like white wine .... I got a free train ticket to London last term, as I was accompanying 32 children to the British Museum .... Several boxes of chocolates, which my DD really appreciates ....

wherearemysocka · 21/02/2013 22:55

I guess we have an agreed national pay structure, where you're rewarded for your experience and work in the classroom rather than how much you suck up to the Head and dance around telling everyone how great you are.

Huh? What's that, Mr Gove? Oh, I take that last point back, then.

Feenie · 21/02/2013 23:05
Sad
MoreBeta · 22/02/2013 10:11

What is the 'normal' typical school year in terms of days in a UK state school (excluding INSET) for a full time teacher for a typical LEA?

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