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Original poster

What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

999 replies

TinTinsSexySister · 19/02/2013 14:59

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

OP posts:
fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:42

Will somebody explain how maths should be taught then if text books are not allowed?

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:43

And also why are text books written and bought?

tiggytape · 23/02/2013 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:45

If most businesses operated like schools they would fold. Instantly.

Closing the doors (but still paying for the buildings) for 13 weeks of the year and totally ignoring customers during this time would do it right away. That's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard in my whole life.

Feenie · 23/02/2013 20:46

And also why are text books written and bought?

To sell to private schools whose unsuspecting paying parents seemingly don't know any better - even if they are a teacher? Hmm

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:47

Then please tell me how maths should be taught properly.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:49

I don't use text books I hasten to add (although I do write them) but I certainly worked through text books in Maths when I was at school.

wherearemysocka · 23/02/2013 20:49

Ha ha, tiggytape doesn't sound so tempting when you put it like that! Still, if I didn't like teaching I would do something else instead. It works for me. I have a terrible concentration span and like the frantic on/off nature of our job. I think if I had more non contact time I'd probably spend it on Mumsnet...

MoreBeta · 23/02/2013 20:49

EvilTwins - you are already working the extra 615 hours. You and others have said it. Its part of the job. Hence, its part of what you are being paid for. Honestly I dont get why you keep saying you are only being paid for 1265 hours - its obvious part of your job and what you are paid for is the other 615 hours.

Feenie · 23/02/2013 20:50

By engaging the children in their learning, by giving problem solving opportunities, by interacting with them as a teacher, letting them work collaboratively - none of which can be done copying exercises out of a textbook.

I am genuinely Shock that an experienced teacher can't tell the difference between decent teaching and poor practice.

Arisbottle · 23/02/2013 20:52

I use text books in lessons, not every lesson and rarely for a whole lesson . Modern text books tend to have some quite good activities.

Somtimes I will create a new resource using a mixture of tasks and information from a number of text books.

My key stage four and five students have personal text books mainly for homework.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:52

It is very odd that isn't it MoreBeta? Why do they not see a contradiction between getting very upset about having to do more hours for no more money at the same time as being very proud that this is, in fact, exactly what they are doing?

I can only come back to the idea of flexibility. They don't mind the extra hours as long as they choose when to do them even if they're unpaid. But if they were told to change the hours to suit people other than themselves then they would mind and expect extra payment. Hmm....

wherearemysocka · 23/02/2013 20:55

Yes, I think you've summed it up there fivecandles. I like being trusted as a professional to recognise what needs to be done and do it.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:58

But using text books and doing the other stuff are not mutually exclusive are they? Ultimately, in maths, you do have to do a fair amount of sums on your own. And it seems to me that text books would be ideally suited to that.

chibi · 23/02/2013 20:59

my hours aren't standardised- i spend more time marking when students are doing mocks, for example. i spend less time when my exam classes have left as they have completed their GCSEs or A levels.

if my hours are standardised, what am i doing during the 'slow' times- dusting?

during the crunch points, i may not have any extra time in which to do extra stuff.

it will surprise some, but teaching is actually not even a bit like working in a sausage factory which has a constant flow rate of filling coming down the conveyor belt.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 21:00

'I like being trusted as a professional to recognise what needs to be done and do it.'

I accept that there needs to be some of that but teachers do not work for themselves. Good managers are going to need to look at the whole picture and the needs of the customers to use the business analogy and sometimes employees have to work in ways that don't always suit them to address the needs of the customers.

Back again to the doctors. Doctors don't want to work weekends which is understandable but patients need doctors at weekends. Whose needs should take priority given that doctors salaries are paid by patients?

Feenie · 23/02/2013 21:02

That wasn't the practice that MoreBeta had described, FiveCandles.

Sums, btw, only refer to addition.

You still haven't answered posters' questions as to what you actually teach.

wherearemysocka · 23/02/2013 21:02

I don't get the doctor analogy. People are going to get ill at the weekend, they can't help that. I've yet to see a child struck down by a grammar emergency that needs my immediate attention.

Feenie · 23/02/2013 21:03

I don't pay my doctor's salary, and he doesn't pay mine - the City council do.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 21:04

'during the crunch points, i may not have any extra time in which to do extra stuff.'

That's the problem. That's what a lot of teachers find stressful when they can't even go for a wee let alone spend time with individual students. And that's not helpful for anybody is it?

I think even when your exam classes leave and, in theory, you have more time you more than fill it with planning for the following your or evaluating and redrafting stuff.

I do not believe that there's a single teacher who would not be more effective if they had less contact time but it was spread over more of the year either because of their personal workload or because of the needs of the pupils.

mrz · 23/02/2013 21:06

But using text books and doing the other stuff are not mutually exclusive are they? It's quite difficult to do the other stuff as you put it if you are sat marking books or doing paperwork

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 21:06

Well I didn't see what he described and I'd be really reluctant to cast judgment on the quality of a particular school based on what a parent said on an internet site as I've said.

Arisbottle · 23/02/2013 21:06

Aside from very short bursts I do not find my job stressful.

Feenie · 23/02/2013 21:08

Well I didn't see what he described

Exactly. Oh the irony....

You seem strangely reticent to divulge your subject, FiveCandles.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 21:10

'I've yet to see a child struck down by a grammar emergency that needs my immediate attention.'

God, I have had exactly those via email at midnight on Friday nights or during holidays with A Level coursework for example.

I think also coming back to points made earlier there are many very vulnerable children who are totally left on their own with some very real emergencies over the summer holidays. I work in an area, for example, where a number of girls have effectively disappeared over the holiday to arranged marriages.

You see? It's a teacher's point of view that. It's about the teachers' convenience and not the needs of children and I think that is a real shame.

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