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Original poster

What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

999 replies

TinTinsSexySister · 19/02/2013 14:59

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

OP posts:
Feenie · 23/02/2013 20:22

I'm sorry, Feenie, but I don't get how using text books in Maths lessons is evidence of a poor quality of education and I don't think you have any right to say that given you've not even been to the school and presumably don't even know which school it is.

No - you're right. Opening a textbook at page 1 and continuing through the book every lesson - which is what MoreBeta has described in one Maths year - is amazing teaching. Really. Worth every penny. Hmm

exoticfruits · 23/02/2013 20:23

Of course private schools provide much more in the way of 'wrap around' care during the term they have the extra holiday to compensate. I have no objection to providing it if I get the same length of holidays as my local private school. I have just looked at their dates and they break up on July 5th and return on 2nd of September. They offer a wonderful selection of summer holiday activities but they cost a wonderful amount. They give 10% off if you book early and 10% if you send siblings. They are not provided by teachers.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:24

'You cant be paid extra for hours you are already working. It is a convenient fiction that you are only working 1265 hours.'

So we have various choices:

1.) Ask for payment for the extra hours we do or
2.) Stop doing them
3.) Ask for the hours we ACTUALLY do to be balanced
4.) Keep the status quo which mean the hours we're contracted are really nonsense and a lot of teachers are stressed and overworked

I think the reason so many teachers want to keep to 4 is because they are so keen to keep the flexibility and I bet most of that is because of childcare which sort of brings us full circle because if the school year was more balanced then we'd be less worried about childcare...

wherearemysocka · 23/02/2013 20:25

I think the world of business could learn from teachers, actually. Work your socks off when it's busy, do less during less busy times. Allocate your hours according to how much work you have to do rather than sitting in an office from 9 to 5 whether you have 8 hours work to do or 3. Work where is best for you and at a time that is best for you, if that's 9pm when your children are in bed, then that's fine as long as the work gets done.

As has been pointed out on this thread several times, the presentee culture of our working lives is as much to blame if not more for childcare issues than school holidays.

MoreBeta · 23/02/2013 20:27

feenie - my children moved to another private school 18 months ago and I am very happy now. They do use text books in maths and are now in a set and going at a pace that suits their ability level.

Its a totally different and much better school.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:27

chibi, I'm not suggesting any of those things. Perhaps read my posts?

chibi · 23/02/2013 20:28

other professionals work the hours they need to accomplish their jobs, true

but no one says to lawyer, ok, you have 4 briefs to prepare, but i am going to need you to dedicate an extra 3 hours doing non-brief, non-legal activities a day.

i really wish i had known that as a teacher i would be regarded as a skiving entitled sack of garbage responsible for most of society's ills, the cause of riots and a waste of space for not working for free.

i should have become a piano player in a brothel like my dear mother begged.

exoticfruits · 23/02/2013 20:29

Since the same school offers a 2day netball course for £40 I think that 5days of activities must be considerably more!

mrz · 23/02/2013 20:29

Surely it depend how text books are being used. If the children are told open your book at page ** and complete the exercise while the teacher gets on with paperwork there isn't any teaching occurring (and probably not a lot of learning either)

teacherwith2kids · 23/02/2013 20:30

wheraremysocka,

I was very lucky in business not to encounter a presenteeism culture - just a recognition that everyone would get their work done, and would work the hours needed to achieve that.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:30

'Of course private schools provide much more in the way of 'wrap around' care during the term they have the extra holiday to compensate.'

Not sure how the extra holiday 'compensates' if, as you say, the care is not provided by teachers but hey ho.

Better to have wrap around care even if there's a charge than none though IMHO.

Feenie · 23/02/2013 20:30

Grin @ chibi

Don't forget your breathtaking sense of entitlement.

exoticfruits · 23/02/2013 20:31

So MoreBeta - are your DCs private school teachers running free clubs through the long holidays ?

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:31

'Work your socks off when it's busy, do less during less busy times'

Yep. I bet the world of business could really learn something from that nugget Hmm

tiggytape · 23/02/2013 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EvilTwins · 23/02/2013 20:32

If I'm working an extra 615 hours per year unpaid, I am bloody well going to choose when to do them, thank you.

MoreBeta · 23/02/2013 20:34

exoticfruits - our summer clubs are provided by the teachers and they definitley get paid extra because I pay the summer club fees on top of school fees.

I dont expect teachers to work for nothing. I don't and they shouldn't either.

exoticfruits · 23/02/2013 20:36

I really don't get you Fivecandles. Private schools can have 2months off - the teachers get the holiday. The parents have to pay if they want holiday care and yet state school teachers can 5 have the, considerably shorter, holiday- and it has to be free childcare. I will give wrap around care if I get paid for it! I am not curing all societies ills- I already help vulnerable families in a volunteer role every week ( not through school) and do my bit.

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:36

'If the children are told open your book at page ** and complete the exercise while the teacher gets on with paperwork there isn't any teaching occurring (and probably not a lot of learning either)'

I don't know about maths. Don't you just get taught to do sums then do them then get feedback and learn from your mistakes? And then do some more practice? And then move on to a different sort of maths?

I suspect that the teacher does mark the work and occasionally discuss stuff with the class? I'm suspecting also that if there were problems with kids' understanding or results then action would be taken esp in a private school but I repeat that I would not like to make a judgment about the quality of education a child is getting given his parent's commments on an internet site (when presumably the parent only knows what his son has told him which may not exactly be the whole picture).

exoticfruits · 23/02/2013 20:37

Don't know why iPad chose to write 5 - hope you can work out the sentence!

wherearemysocka · 23/02/2013 20:37

Yes, five candles, that is what I mean, and I don't see the need for your sarcasm. I can only speak for my own friends and family but I cannot believe the amount of pissing about on Facebook they do during working hours. I ask them about it, and they say that it's not a busy time at work and they don't have anything else to do. What a waste of everyone's time. I am very pleased that in my case I can go home and do something else.

Sometimes I stay at school until 7pm marking. Sometimes I leave at 3.30 and take the cat to the vet. I like the flexibility this gives me and it means I work harder, as tiggytape has said above. I think that other people would benefit from such an arrangement, particularly those with children.

chibi · 23/02/2013 20:38

yes. yes. that is exactly what maths teaching is like.

what do you teach, fivecandles?

exoticfruits · 23/02/2013 20:38

Are they forced to work it? Why then should state school teachers work for nothing?

mrz · 23/02/2013 20:39

"I don't know about maths. Don't you just get taught to do sums then do them then get feedback and learn from your mistakes? And then do some more practice? And then move on to a different sort of maths?"

No

fivecandles · 23/02/2013 20:40

'The objection isn't about sticking to 1265 hours whilst waving a contract and moaning. It is about being happy to spend hundreds of extra hours doing things that are very important at a time that suits them and in a way that suits them. '

Hmm, I don't think there are many teachers who ARE happy to spend hundreds of extra hours doing unpaid work. I accept that work needs to be done to do my job effectively but I would like those hours to be spread out. As it is I do not have a good quality of family life in the evenings and at weekends and I do not feel that holidays compensate for that. I love my job and am happy to do the hours that it needs. UNliek many of you I don't even want more money. BUt I do want more time.