What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

tigyy, mimimum wage jobs, especially those involving part time or shifts, do not pay enough to cover childcare for all of the school hours in the holidays.

I am aware of children (lower KS2 age) who are left to their own devices with a slightly older sibling or friend all day, or whose parents work nights to they entertain themselves while their parents sleep during the day - because full time child care costs too much on top of eating and housing costs.

This is not 'finding working and childcare difficult', this is 'finding working and childcare impossible, due to the costs of the latter'. Would you prefer parents of school age children to claim unemployment benefit instead?

'Canoeing instructors, guitar teachers, gym coaches are paid less than qualified teachers. The children have a more interesting time and learn more than they would from extra school. Mixing with a different crowd of children and different adults is good for children. Its nice when children get the opportunity to persue their interests rather than having to follow a set curriculum.'

I agree with this and this is how I would envisage the leisure/extra curricular block working.

Equally if kids want to put on a theatre production or do computer programming or play football - great. But why can't this happen at school? You wouldn't have to take advantage of it but you could.

It's really common to have this sort of sumemr camp in the states but also in Europe. Kids love it.

tiggy, I've dealt with all that.

Teachers can continue to take 6 weeks off if that is what they want under this system.

No teacher would be forced to do extra curricular activities but some techers might choose to do some of their hours in this way.

I'd love to be paid to do 1 to 1 work with kids and do extra curricular stuff as part of my hours.

But toggy, if teachers could choose to take their annualised hours during term time, or as a mixture of term time and holiday working, or as reduced hours in term time with a little holiday time working - how is that 'teachers being forced to work some of their holiday entitlement'? It is just schools using the hours that teachers are paid for slightly differently/

Tbh, the teachers I know went into it to teach children. The holidays were not a key part of the decision-making process - and that as long as all schools moved to the new model, those who find the hours convenint because they match the hours that their children are in school would still be able to match the hours they worked with the hours that their children were in school under a revised system IYSWIM?

But why do you find the 'agenda' of providing free, good quality childcare so threatening?

Do you also think the free childcare places for 3 year olds are part of a dangerous social agenda? Or subsidised state nurseries?

Do you also feel this way about extra curricular activities funded by the state?

You've been hectoring me about not answering questions but you're not answering mine.

What's the difference between accpeting money for your 3 year old to attend nursery or letting your kid go to football training after school and allowing your kid to spend some or all of a 6 week block at school doing extra curriuclar stuff?

I don't get why this would affect or intervene in parenting in any way. And certainly no more than childminders or extra curricular activieis currently do/

PErhaps you should lay your cards on the table. Don't you think parents should be allowed to work in jobs which do not give them 13 weeks holiday a year?

At the moment, holiday activities aren't run by schools as part of the general package and trips etc are generally exceptions and often paid for by parents. There ARE headlines about trips funded by the taxpayer- one fairly recently about a state school which ran a trip to America, so yes, if schools are to finance leisure activities such as cinema trips etc purely for leisure reasons, then I fully expect an outcry of "why are my taxes paying for stuff like this."

For me, the new system would be state-funded for some - via the pupil premium - and ondividually funded for others - in the same way that current holiday playschemes are. Basically, it would be a way of removing some of the inequality that currently exists because of the very differet experience of different children during the longer school holidays, which impacts on the level of achievement of different groups of children after those holidays.

It's really common to have this sort of sumemr camp in the states but also in Europe. Kids love it.

They are not run by schools! If you are a UK student they will pay your flight to US and back, medical insurance, all accommodation and meals and give you pocket money. If we did similar we would get students from all over the world!

I'd be really surprised if even journalists could complain if their own kids could take advantage of free, quality childcare.

Obviously schools would have to stick to their budget also.

I don't think anyone's suggesting trips to America and fair enough to complain about that quite frankyl.

BUt I've not seen any headlines along the lines of 'State school offers film club after school shocker!'.

Honestly, these are quite strange objections.

And the only real reasons for holding it in school would be
a) facilities
b) the already set up pupil premium system
c) a pool of staff
d) knowledge of the needs of each child, enabling activities to be matched to children's needs (so some children might get a short 'reading' session once a day ... and others might not...)
e( exisiting trusting relationships between parents and the school.

I never said that summer camps in the US were run by schools (although they do run summer schools for kids who are struggling) what I said was that kids enjoy this sort of thing.

I think you need to stop looking for red herrings.

Tiggy, yes, it does. I am perhaps unusually well-acquainted with the child safeguarding reporting process.... but it does not mean that in all cases we have been able to stop it happening.

e.g. if a couple of children are 'playing out' every night after school, and tend to spend much of each holiday day messing around in the village park, it is quite hard to detect whether that is a choice they and their parents have made, or whether it is something that they have to do because they cannot go home yet as there is no-one there...

Yes, teacher and otherwise the facilities etc are funded and maintained but wasted for 13 weeks at great cost to the taxpayer.

And also proximity.

Why mention them in that case. Why can US have summer child care without using teachers and yet the UK teacher has to sacrifice themselves for the common good?

Sweden might get good child care but they have 10 weeks school holiday in the summer!

Do ALL children in the US access summer camos? Or is it - like similar schemes here - only accessible to those with significant money to pay for them?

I have explained why.

My point is that many kids are already used to some form of summer care whether that is a childminder or a playscheme or whatever. And many kids enjoy such activities.

The problem is solved if we have summer camps and pay international students flight, board & lodging and pocket money. Who will pay it?

I'm thinking more about childless tax payers than journalists.

I expect that in the US they get what they pay for!

No, the problem is not solved UNLESS those summer camps are free to those children who attract pupil premium or whatever measure of poverty you prefer. And one way of being able to do that would be to use existing facilities (schools) and varying the hours of exisitng staff as well as recruiting specialists (who need not be from abroad)

And also, as the aim is to raise the attainment of children who would otherwise fall further behind, you do need some education staff involved - some teachers, some TAs or similar - even if very few.