What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

I don't think that some people want children or they expect their children to be looked after for free. Prehaps schools should offer free overnight boarding as well as 52 weeks care. Afterall .... blah! blah! little jonny's mother needs time for mumsnet to work blah! blah! Ofcourse Jo taxpayer should pay for everything...

Having a children is both a financial and an emotional responsiblity. End of.

Personally I would like existing playschemes to be adapted so that there is wrap around care. I do not want my children shoe horned into more school.

Arisbottle - so you do not work at all in holidays while some teachers insist they do?

In effect you regard it as a part time job but others insist it is full time.

Arisbottle teaches secondary, MoreBeta.

Are you really telling me that state primary schools don't use text books and every teacher has to effectivley write their own text books for every class every year.

Absolutely. It's called teaching.

I just can't believe only private schools use text books.

I just can't believe you pay thousands for that!

I just can't believe you pay thousands for that! grin

I do very very little in the holidays. During term time I work between 7am and 6pm and then 9 until midnight Monday to Thursday and 7am until 6pm on Friday and a few hours on a Sunday. I do not regard that as part time but I am simply not willing to do that and then work on the holidays .

As long as it gets done, it is nobody's business WHEN it gets done, which is another reason I dislike the 9-5 47 weeks of the year suggestion. Personally, I get to work at 8.15 after dropping my kids at breakfast club at their school, leave between 4 & 5, depending on what's going on, then work 2-4 hours in the evening, again, depending on what I need to do. On Fridays, I leave on the bell and do no work in the evenings. I never work on Saturdays, but do between 6 & 8 hours most Sunday afternoon/evenings. I probably spend 1/3 to 1/2 of school holidays working, depending on Childcare. As I said, the autonomy is one the things I enjoy most about the job. When I was doing the school play, before half term, I was in school from 8am til 10.30pm for a week- no one made me though.

Feenie/letseat - erm .....serioulsy.... don't you think you might have more time to teach if you weren't writing your own materials?

I thought it was common knowledge, you have to pay 4 weeks holiday in addition to what they work, as long as their regular weeks are more than a certain threshold (33 weeks maybe?). Permanent, hourly paid, not SE, obviously. We had to work it out carefully for preschool workers. I honestly can't be bothered to google for more specific evidence, but maybe one of these will seem compelling:

www.cleanitup.co.uk/forum/4252354701.html

www.personneltoday.com/hrspace/forums/holiday-pay-for-term-time-only-employees-9362.aspx

www.paidtoshop.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-47999.html

to quote from last "I think they take 39 weeks actually worked, add 4 wks hols, add pub hol days then reduce hourly rate 44.5/52 iyswim) "

What we did was take the 39 weeks, add 4 weeks, calculate the total hours & salary assuming 43 weeks at usual hours, then divide by 12 to come up with monthly figures. It was all in the contracts. I didn't make that system up, it was long-standing standard contract.

I'm only bank staff & school are deducting NI & tax which is amusing, I'll get to claim most (?all) it back in April.

MoreBeta - I have been a teacher for 15 years and have never taught from a text book. I have far more skill and imagination.

EvilTwins - is this 'text book writing' going on in state secondary schools as well?

To agree with some previous posters, those who want the holidays changing, really are not arguing with the teachers. We really want what is best for the children we (care for and ) teach, and if different holidays worked better, teachers are not likely to oppose this.
Whatever rhetoric Gove might spout, if the Govt decided to change term length there is precious little teachers might do about it. He may have talked about it, it has not been brought up as Green, white or even slightly off white paper yet.
The holidays are not there for teachers' benefit, we are not clinging on to them for dear life, despite loads of threads like this and suggestions mentioned in the media, it is never actually put forward as an actual means for change. So no one votes, has a three line whip etc, but it is still teachers' fault nothing changes.
Not sure how that works,

I don't really know what you mean. I teach Performing Arts and yes, I create some of my own materials. I don't write text books since I don't use that kind of material. Other depts use text books. There is a HUGE difference between creating your own teaching materials to suit yourself and your classes and unnecessarily writing text books.

I rarely use textbooks, I don't rewrite new material every year though . My pupils have textbooks that they use for homework.

I honestly can't be bothered to google for more specific evidence, but maybe one of these will seem compelling

No, actually, they aren't - they seem all to refer to additional staff or part time teachers, not full time. I don't think you're right, have never seen anything in Finance meetings to substantiate it, and can't find anything on the net either.

*letseatgrandma - "We are not allowed to use text books or workbooks and worksheets are heavily frowned on. Ideas are supposed to be spontaneously made up, tailor-made for each group."

Are you really telling me that state primary schools don't use text books and every teacher has to effectivley write their own text books for every class every year.*

Precisely. We produce our own materials, tailored to the class, the individual children, the time of year, the rest of the curriculum, etc. That is what we are trained and paid for. I don't think it happens in secondary though. A few years ago our Pyramid secondary kindly donated all its worn-out French text books to us when they bought some more up-to-date texts. Absolutely useless and annoyingly patronising. Goes to explain why secondary teachers don't work through the holidays, perhaps?

No we make our own resources although we work in teams to do so. So if there are five teachers in a department we will split the planning between us,which I suspect is the difference between us. We may then tweak resources each year or tweak the department resources to suit our own teaching style or class but there is no need to keep remaking the wheel.

To comstantly make resources year after year would be an inefficient waste of my time and I would just refuse to do it.

"Are you really telling me that state primary schools don't use text books and every teacher has to effectivley write their own text books for every class every year. "

No. We rarely use textbooks and nobody is "writing textbooks" either, what a ridiculous suggestion.

We teach. We create resources according to the needs and abilities of our class. That is how teaching works nowadays. That is what we are trained to do.

What subject, Arisbottle?

**

That's not because of textbooks, MoreBeta, that's because of selection, parental interest, and without having at least ten in a class with their own social workers.

Difference.

Mainly history.

LaBelle - I teach secondary and I work in the holidays. Primaries don't have the monopoly on work, you know

You do, however, have the monopoly on patience, and I greatly admire you for it. Give mea stroppy teenager any day

I suspect primary teachers may work harder, certainly that me. Having said that every teacher on MN seems to work harder than me.

I write text books (that are published) but ironically rarely use them. Text books might be more appropriate for some subjects rather than others - maths? science? modern languages? I would say most teachers use a pick n' mix of resources taken or adapted from text books and websites, department resources or resources shared between colleagues and their own original material. I do think that MoreBeta has a point that there is too much reinventing the wheel and too little collaboration or building on existing material/expertise in teaching and this is partly because there isn't the time for discussion or networking or cpd that there should be.

Yep, Arisbottle - times that by 11 subjects!