The National Curriculum.

[seeker]

People complain about it all the time.

Which bits of it do they not want their children to learn?

Can you sing that "with a little help from my friends" ..........that is?

Lets talk about the NC,

How can it widen the gap between all students taught in mainstream state? when all state schools follow the NC. Surely if schools followed their own curriculum the differences in provision would be wider, differences in subject, depth & breadth of study, differences in targets and depth of knowledge attained and differences according to the particular ideology of the school.

How does it widen the gap btw state and private? Well the NC itself doesn't. However private schools are free to follow it if they choose, some don't. Of those that don't and those that do, I think you'll find that the differences between standards and results are minimal.

The difference between private and state, is that private can, by and large choose it's intake, they can be selective. They also have smaller classes and better facilities. They can exclude pupils easily as you have made great bones to explain and they often have parents that support their children and share in the ethos of the school. There are many reasons why there are differences, but the NC is not the cause of the discrepancies.

I followed the NC and sent my HE son into secondary at 11 working btw the levels of 7a and 4a.

Whilst I think that there maybe a problem with how the levels are paced/stepped, the classes huge, the teachers stretched and resources thin on the ground, the problem isn't with the NC.

Perhaps you should just continue your policy of removing your DS in the name of equality

who? mrz, mine is back in school, a state school. Very happy too.

As for MrRonaldos wonder boy.........he has been saved from a fate worse than death, he has been saved from the NC according to his father.

My remark was to Jabed Mini

He was saved from a teacher who suggested that a four year old boy might have some fine motor difficulties

Not uncommon in boys at four, even the clever ones

My Ds is not the subject of the NC mrz. imho I " saved him not so much from the NC but from silly teachers who couldnt tell one child from another and so were playing God with childrens lives for nothing.

Therewere no motor problems that was whizzed me off. The problem was his class teacher could not identify him and left him fending for himself in a class which she was not in control of because of the disruption and behavioural difficulties there ( hence I do have a bee in the bonnet about behavior I am afraid) .

But this is supposed to be about the NC. The NC does not suit the needs of wonder boys like mine or even average boys ( not fogetting girls there). In fact it suits no one other than Ken clarke who based it on the school matriculation exam he took somewhere in the 1950's I think. Then it was dumbed down to suit the non grammar school types who were the majority of DC for whom it had to be made to work...... so something of a pigs ear really.

Of course mini,I am quite happy for others to be satisfied with whatever schooling and curriculum they choose. If the state system suits you, then fine.

I do not find it particularly useful for my DS ( but he is one of those who many teachers here would suggest should be left in a corner with a book bought by me on Amazon because they have other priorities. So, he is left to me ( and my DW) who have our own skills and several books from Amazon to help.

How can it widen the gap between all students taught in mainstream state? when all state schools follow the NC.

You have misreadme, it widens the gap between state school provision ( which is uniform) and private school provision, with the latter clearly coming out on top ( by all measures used ). .

So I asked - if you want to close that gap, which you keep saying you do, then how areyou going to do that? It seems your bee in the Bonnet is about the advantages socio economic and educational, given by the likes of me and my DW, so I asked, what is it you want us to do for youy so that the gap is closed? For it is clearly folk like us you want to do something, as the NC is perfect isnt it and its our advantage that disadvantages the disadvantaged.

The difference between private and state, is that private can, by and large choose it's intake, they can be selective

They can but many do not . My own school is semi selective - that is it gives some scholarships to bright DC. However we have a very broad ability spread ( including many who would be bottom set in mainstream) because we accept on fee payment - thats basically any DC.

Many schools are like that, yet most of us still seem to be providing the less able with a rounder education and the skills for employment.

This cannot be accounted for by "pushy parent" syndrome because a lot of the parents are in fact busy with their own lives and do not take interest in their DC's education - that is left to us ( for which they pay us).

So you see your argument is a red herring.

They can exclude pupils easily as you have made great bones to explain and they often have parents that support their children and share in the ethos of the school

I think this is probably the key. But what would you advocate? We are not allowed to exclude? But we have a fee paying customer. But so does state school doesnt it? The tax payer - you , me and other DP. I wonder what they want? I know ou customers often come to ( sorry real world here) get away from the disruption in state schools. Many cite to us as reason for application ( especially mid year applications) that they aregetting their child away from disruptive classrooms.

Surely it would be better for all DC if some children who are clearly not haviung their needs met in stateclassrooms and are so disruptive, if they could be more easily excluded? That way the education in state schools would more or less mirror ours.

Then would the field be equal?

I do not like the NC, but I do not think - as you say - it is the main issue in the inequalities argument.

I just think the NC is naff for reasons I have already stated- its shallow , its over crowded. there isnt time within it ( even though one could argue it has scope) to do more than cursory teaching (which is probably why somany have complained about the same thing being done over and over and nothing else addressed).

There ares omethings I do not think I want to see in the curriculum at all and I have chosen a school for my DS based on not wanting him to be exposed to that particular indoctrination. Of course others may be quite happy. I can accept that. Thats why its good private schools arefree to choose - it means more freedom and flexibility for those of us ( I am not alone) who dont want our DC messed with.

Perhaps you should just continue your policy of removing your DS in the name of equality
If it makes you happy mrz ( safe in the knowledgeyou will never have to teach him I am certain) then I can happlily agree. After all I would be concerned if you were to be teaching wonder boy as you call him - why call him that because he is an able child? Smacks of inverted snobbery and prejudice. And you are a teacher?

I can just imagine mrz how you treat all the "wonder boys" who come through your classes. Its very sad to hear how you speak of them

From a recent article in Times

"David Hanson, chief executive of the Independent Association of Prep Schools, said: ?It?s one of the great strengths of independent schools that we can look around to find a curriculum that suits our needs. The reality is that in too many [state] schools in this country, children are given a limited experience because they have to follow the National Curriculum which is dominated by literacy and numeracy often at the expense of music, art and sport.?

I don't agree with this statement and I don't agree that state schools concentrate only on literacy and numeracy to the detriment of other subjects. So much so, that if anything I would say that primary schools need to focus on raising the level of attainment in those two key areas. Not because they are failing pupils necessarily but because children who fail to grasp the skills in those core subjects will struggle to reach their full potential in other areas. But we know the NC doesn't focus just on those key areas and in fact requires schools to provide a very balanced and quite broad curriculum. That shouldn't prevent schools from ensuring that subject leads are not working with teachers to raise standards in maths & English and it doesn't prevent schools from setting children according to ability and it doesn't prevent schools from ensuring that subject leaders teach those subjects, leaving sewing and RE et.... to the class teacher. It is up to the individual school to decide if it wants to stretch it's most able pupils or leave them sitting in the book corner. Mine sat in the book corner but that was one teacher and one school, not the entire state primary sector and not the fault of a NC.

Maybe there are improvements that can be made, maybe it needs review, maybe it needs updating but that doesn't mean that a NC in all schools is a bad thing. It should in principle ensure equality of provision and opportunity.

The problemwith the NC and many stateschools is that it seems to take them double the time to teach the curriculum compared to preps.

I do think that has a lot to do with other issues. Preps do not have the interuptions or the additional difficulties - so we come back to really choice in what is taught . I prefer not to have my DS taught NC.

I can just imagine mrz how you treat all the "wonder boys" who come through your classes. Its very sad to hear how you speak of them

and exactly how do I speak of them Jabed?

I can tell you this ...I wouldn't be gloating that they had been removed before lunchtime because I couldn't do my job

You call them "wonder boys" mrz - thats enough to tell me what you think and feel about able children.

Clearly you are prejudiced. Why call them wonder boys ( or girls)? Its derogatory and you know it is. You said it to flame. But it clearly expresses how you feel about such little DC in your care.

You are in the state system I hope? I would hateto think any prep teacher would be saying that about an intelligent child in their classroom.Its most unprofessional.

I have never in my life used the term "wonder boys" jabed please don't make up untruths

I said wonder boy, did Mrz ?

Is prep stacked to the rafters with the precocious then ?

ahhh silly me, of course it is, because they can be selective about their intake. That must make lesson planning so much easier.

No mini I didn't and never have but the truth doesn't matter to jabed.

Well it seems both you and mrz have used the phrase. I am surprised at you mini. Why callmy DS wonder boy? You have an able child yourself- you condone his being called wonder boy ( and sat in a corner with a book?).

But mrz used it as well.

Preps are not stuffed to the rafters with avle pupils - there is a normal disrtibution curve in most classes ( and they do not select in many cases). However, no child should have to be described in derogatory terms surely?

Mostof the prep teachers I know value all their pupils and do not go around calling the most able " wonder boys" or indeed the least able " thickos " or two planks" or similar. Every child matters mini.

I am now imagining Jabed with a stop watch. "lesson one.....lesson two..... home time....your 20 minutes is up, you failed to be precocious enough"

Of course it probably takes longer, state teachers have to differentiate for every ability. In prep the kids are dragged along wailing until they fail at the first hurdle and then they are summarily dispensed with before lunch time.

untrue jabed I have never used the phrase (apart from in response to your lies)