The National Curriculum.

[seeker]

People complain about it all the time.

Which bits of it do they not want their children to learn?

The fact that 11 year old pupils in primary are achieving level 5 & 6 (the expected level for most 14 year olds) seems to suggest some schools are doing a very good job of stretching pupils in primary

I think it is because they teach to test. The NC lends itself to that. Ofcourse its not real learning because it isnt grounded and secure and it becomes lost quickly at secondary level and on the process of teaching to levels cgoes and nothing is gained, secured or really learned. No education at all in fact.

Do you want children sectioned? Ronaldo

I agree that the number of children with special needs in mainstream education has increased in recent years. Whether that be because of the closure of special schools or because of an increase in children with SN. I do wonder at times how teachers can be expected cope without significant resources being allotted to these children. But at what point you draw a line and say a child needs special provision outside of mainstream, I don't know. I know I don't like your attitude, of giving up.

I used to run after school maths clubs in primary, behaviour a problem at times. One 6 year old had a tantrum of the sort you would expect from a 2 yr old. She was actually an incredibly bright but spoilt child. What would you have done with her? Ronaldo she hadn't learned how to behave from age 0-6 being at home with her parents, do you not think that the school may have been the best place for her. I have no doubt that over time she will learn to reign in her temper and she will do very well. Certainly the teaching staff didn't spoil her and give her special praise.

Reception and indeed perhaps yr 1 is far too early to write children off, or write off an entire school. Children enter school from disadvantaged homes, they don't need to be written off, they need teaching.

I am sooooo glad you do not teach in state schools.

Can I firstly say that the young man I gave as an example of earlier was in senior school - year 3 ( year 9 to state schools) so it want really about writing DC off young.

However, my DS is 6 , the same age as thouse DC at Sandy Hook. Maybe we do need to look at the issue of taking DC out of mainstream earlier and I do think it does need to be raised about sectioning.

Dysfunctional families seem to be a trend in " personality disorders". Such disorders in my understanding start young also and they are difficult ( some psychologists say impoosible) to treat. So maybe removal is the answer?

Sometimes we have to think about the largerpicture and keeping us all safe rather than the needs of one individual with severe difficulties.

14 is hardly elderly Jabed

I am sooooo glad you do not teach in state schools

So am I.

No but any difficulties are well established by then according to what I have read.

The same boy wasremoved from two highly prestigious schools in a similarfashion before ours - but they are not to be equally criticised for " giving up" then? of course they were equally failing as professionals
I supposethe school who sorted the problem by getting in a special tutor ( and triple fees) and teaching him in isolation for the duration was doing better then? no they were ignoring the real problem but at least educating the child academically

No but any difficulties are well established by then according to what I have read. so when faced with a difficulty we give in

Personality disorder is psychological, intractable in some cases yes.

I agree there is an issue with poor parenting and some problems seem to cluster in lower socio-economic groups. I guess that is what you are driving at.

I'm more interested in the wider socio-economic question of why that is, because if the inequalities perpetuated by class, money and private education are allowed to continue, if people in the lower socio-economic groups continue to suffer poor health, low income and low life aspiration and chances then the trend will continue and worsen. Private schools are actually one of the symptoms and one of the causes of that inequality.

No but any difficulties are well established by then according to what I have read. so when faced with a difficulty we give in

I think we may have to look at alternative solutions sometimes.
When I wasa young man I recall a prayer plaque in my college which read
" Lord grant me the strength to change those things that can be changed, the grace to accept those that cannot and the wisdom to know the difference"

Well, maybe we need to know the difference between when we should not give up and when we should accept what is (and sort a different solution).

For all our sakes we need that wisdom.

Hitler had a solution, it wasn't a good solution. The solution is not to point the finger at a whole group of people and say we need a solution.

You say that children with SN and behavioural problems prevent other "normal" children from learning and that these children must be removed. Removed to where? What sort of education do they need or do they just need containment?

I prefer not to write of children jabed because what will the future hold if these young people don't learn.

off

I keep wondering where they are removed to? Obviously private schools don't need to care- the state does.
The NC does not do Tudors in year 2 and 4 - can you quote the part were it does?

In DS1's school they covered the Tudors in yr 2 and in his friend's school they covered it in year 4. DS1 covered WW11 in yr 5 ( although he wasn't in school then, so we covered it at home) and his friend covered the war in yr 3

I followed the NC for two years at home with DS1 and DS2. Except for maths.

So he didn't do it twice? It would be quite a different approach in year 4 to year 2.

I worked in a school where every year group taught the same history, geography and science topics each term, obviously covering different aspects and in more depth with older children. This meant nursery to Y6 were learning about The Romans, Italy and Earth in Space ...

When I was in what's now year four, we did Butterflies all year because the teacher liked that. In the now year five we did a lot about Jesus for the same reason. Think NC came in around the time i was year 6. (1989?).

That sounds interesting, did it work well. Were there opportunities for children in different years to work together?

I know in DS2's school they had a couple of special days when they did this.

No it was an utter disaster

In a school I worked in recently, we did the same idea Mrz and it was a great success with lots of cross class collaboration but it was a very small school of 80. We chose overarching titles like 'Carnival of the animals' or 'I like the way you move' and ensured we taught the subject knowledge/ skills (of which there isn't a HUGE amount) at age appropriate levels. We also sat and planned together as a whole school (so ALL 4 teachers lol) which sparked off some fab ideas and ensured progression. Why didn't it work at your school do you think?

oh dear. It must be costly too because any reusable resources would be in short supply.

I remember spending year 5 in primary doing art because the teacher only seemed to have an interest in paint and glitter ! I do think the NC is good and on the whole an improvement because we really were at the mercy of our teachers idiosyncrasies before One teacher had all of us doing long division for an entire term, nothing else. It was gruelling and to this day I'll turn the house over to find a calculator, despite her expert teaching.

Removed to where?

Well we couldtry the solution that seemed to have a number of reasonable outcomes for many years - special schools. OK I have said it.
But we got rid of them because

a) they were expensive - it is a big job providing proper facilities and teachers for pupils with needs.

Neither were all spcial schools lumped into one. We had schools for learning difficulties of various types and schools for those who had behavioural and psychiatric difficulties. But its a big expensive old job doing that. Far cheaper to throw them into mainstream and make the community take care of them for you.

b) a number of parents are overly sensitive about this. DC need schools that are for them. It doesnt work to provide them with lessthan what they need.

I am not looking at quality of solutions, just putting solutions on the table

(if these were elderly people it seems though society led by Dawkins and the atheists would be happy to cull them and I doubt you would disagree mini.I am not suggesting that and never have)

Mini - btw, Ido thinkthat thereseems to be a much larger number of SN DC
(especially behavioural problems as opposed tolearning difficulties) around these days.

Over here the conjecture is that this results from fragmented and dysfunctional families rather than economics.

So......you have DCs with inadequate parents, dysfunctional parents, and you just put them all together in a 'special' school with all the SN children. Have I got that right? And then 'normal' schools are just for well adjusted DC from 'good' homes and those without SN. The 'good' teachers can then just get on and teach and they can't make much progress in 'special' schools because it is a different job- more social work and nurturing- not to mention the entire range of SN. Most of society can then pretend they don't exist because they are 'out of sight, out of mind'.
Not a world that I want to live in.