The National Curriculum.

[seeker]

People complain about it all the time.

Which bits of it do they not want their children to learn?

"(if these were elderly people it seems though society led by Dawkins and the atheists would be happy to cull them and I doubt you would disagree mini.I am not suggesting that and never have)"

This is the single most despicable thing I have ever read on mumsnet. Can I suggest we all leave the thread, and no longer engage in any way with the person who said it?

I think you are right, seeker.I couldn't believe what I was reading. It seemed to be saying keep all infirm, disabled, mentally impaired, dysfunctional etc, etc, etc, etc i.e. anyone less than 'perfect' out of the way. It was the reason I started with 'so....' I couldn't think that was what was meant. In summary it seemed to mean- 'keep anyone who might inconvenience my 'perfect' DC , firmly out of sight and definitely away from any contact.
I get increasingly annoyed with Ronaldo's posts, which seem even worse since the name change, so best not to engage.

Over here the conjecture is that this results from fragmented and dysfunctional families rather than economics

Economics underpins the entire history and social relations between man. It is the social totality and is responsible for all forms of social relations. It dictates every aspect of peoples lives and how they relate to others. It is the cause of the dysfunctionality within society. Deal with that and you deal with all forms of disadvantage and all forms of social behaviour that stems from inequality.

So no, the answer is not to move children into special schools and further divide men upon economic grounds and further disadvantage them. The answer is to change the economic relations that lead to inequality and dysfunctionality, broken homes and families, crime and lack of social cohesion. Job done, no more disadvantaged children, and while we are at it, the first place to start is by removing charity status to private schools.

I agree Mini.

I knew the Nazi/eugenicists was lurking under the surface, forgive me seeker and Exotic, it was actually the only reason I joined the thread.

Read back through his posts, it's there as plain as the nose on your face.

Especially the charitable status- unless they are doing far more than playing lip service to it. It would be far cheaper for LEAs to put some of the really disadvantaged DCs into the private schools- it would be better for them and a saving to the tax payer.

It was definitely Hitler's solution.

I agree with both of you.

At least his posting style is so obvious that w'll be able to spot his next name change.

So depressed by mumsnet recently.

Me too seeker, I think it is a symptom of feelings in wider society. Politicians clustered in the middle, populations moving far left.....far right. It happened after the great depression.

Anyway I think the national curriculum is a great thing and wish it was extended to all schools. I would see the resources of the failing private sector (once I had worked out how to throw a monkey wrench in !) requisitioned into the state sector so that all children benefit equally.

There are a few depressing threads lately!
The general trend of this is very depressing, the DC with the luck to be born into an economically and emotionally stable family should get the best of everything. Those without that luck should be separated and out of sight and put up with second best of everything - if even that!

NC is the best way of ensuring access to all children to learning of equal relevance and standard. The levels are wrong, somehow can't put my finger on it. And the pressure primary schools are under to ensure that level 4 at the end of year six means that not all children's needs can be met. I found this because DS1 needs were special, in the same way that any child may have SN. His needs were at the other end of the scale but no less valid especially if over time we want working class children to aspire and achieve. Education should be the spring board for equality not the means by which we prevent equality. Over time we need to raise working class children to become the teachers and policy makers of the future, not welfare claimants with poor social skills and fewer opportunities for happiness. (rant over) or else in another 20 years people WILL take seriously what Ronaldo is saying!

It's a very odd leap of logic that anyone who would argue that 'every child matters' in a Dawkinite atheist who wants to kill all the old people. Frankly a bit mad, really.

I cant believe you lot. Mini suggest the Hitler theme. On the contrary to what you are saying I proposed that it was not an idea I stood for. However, I do know many MNers would agree to culling the elderly! I have seen them say it - so Hitlers solution for old folk is it but not for kids?

But then, when my DW was in hospital having our DS a woman in the next bed wastelling us how the medical profession had attempted to make her abort her baby because she was "old" (late 40's) and they said it would be special needs. The baby was perfect and healthy btw. She was saying how glad she was she had not let the young doctor and midwife make her do it.

However, I do think that special schools are a solution to the increasing needs of DC in state schools. But I wouldnt want to lump them all in together. I think there needs to be differentiation between those whose needs are learning based and those whose needs are social/ personality disorder.

Those DC need good teachers who are specialist in the area. I think lumping them into mainstream is tantamount to letting them rot on the bottom of a heap with under qualified and over stretched teachers and resources.

So not quite the solution you have in mind seeker. But I would expect nothing better from you than to twise what I say and then bully others into playing " send hiim to Coventry" The fact other MNers cannot see that speaks volumes for their lack of differentiation anyway.

Maybe I wouldnt want to speak to them - or teach their DC .... or yours for that matter seeker. I really truely hope I do not ever have to meet your offspring if they are anything like you appear here.

God also forfend I have to ever have my DS in school with them or anyone like them

Yet you want rid od me? I wonder why really? Am I taking all the attention you want away from you in some way? You want to be the big girl with the big ideas?

Happy Christmas to you
(PS - I never made a secret of my name change or why I changed. I wont be changing it again, so there is no need to try and witch humnt me across the forum) .

NC is the best way of ensuring access to all children to learning of equal relevance and standard
But it doesnt does it mini? All it achieves is the same low standad for all in state schools. It purpetuates the inequalties and even widens the gap educationally between those who are taught within the NC and those who are educated outside of it in private schools.

So one education for the plebs ( I am sure seeker will like that word) and another for the elite. And a gulf betweeen.

Forget SN, they have no chance at all in that ststem in either place as the NC does not serve their needs at all..

It's a very odd leap of logic that anyone who would argue that 'every child matters' in a Dawkinite atheist who wants to kill all the old people. Frankly a bit mad, really.

#Thats because you made it up. I didnt say that. I would be logical. Work that out.

I have to say this, in the light of Sandy Hook and Dunblaine and many other cases, had the purpetrators of those horrific incidents been locked away safely when it was first recognised they had problems the parents of a lot of Dc would not be left in anguis.

It also brings to mind another case - that of James Bulger whose murderers had shown signs of maladjustment long before.

Lets face it we have to start protecting DC. Every child does matter. But it might be that some DC are not getting their needs met appropriately quickly enough and the result is tragedy.

had the purpetrators of those horrific incidents been locked away safely when it was first recognised they had problems the parents of a lot of Dc would not be left in anguis. or if the schools hadn't written them off by lunchtime and tried a little harder perhaps

I'm afraid you're sounding like an increasingly unhinged, unpleasant reactionary and I have no wish to interact further, Ronaldo.

Good for you OSN and maybe you can take the seeker character with you?

Both of you have done little to enhance this thread.

Maybe we can get onto the NC instead?

OK Mini, you are the one batting on about inequality and the need to remove it. So, what do you want those of us who have the " advantage" in the education system to do? What is it you want me to do with my DS so that I can ensure that some child from a disadvantaged background gets a chance instead of him? I taking it that is what you want? You need those families like mine who have economic, social and educational privledge to do something to level the playing field - but what exactly?

How can you be absolutely certain without any doubt that you are locking up the right people when you make a pronouncement upon their sanity or criminality and personality long before they do anything? That is a very dangerous idea.

It is not always possible to predict which children will grow up to have problems later in life. And to be honest with you, if you went down that route and at the same rate at which people are being thrown onto the pile of slodge (ie unemployed, disenfranchised and disadvantaged) then we would end up fairly quickly with pretty empty main stream schools. The answer is for schools to educate not further disadvantage some children.

The attack on Seeker seems totally unjustified and unpleasant.

Near to whereI live ( in the UK) there is a school which specialises in dealing with children with educational special needs ( of many kinds and multiple needs too) . Now I was under the misaprehension it was a state school.

I was told by my DW that in fact it is fee paying. So a lot of parents shell out a lot of cvash to have their DC removed from the state system to meet their needs to it seems?

So why is it everyone here dends the inclusion policy so when clearly it is not even popular with DP who have SN DC when they have the opportunity to geta better facility such as the one I mentione, they pay.

I mean, I have to say its facilities are superb and I had always thought the state did them proud but clearly its parents doing it.

How can you be absolutely certain without any doubt that you are locking up the right people when you make a pronouncement upon their sanity or criminality and personality long before they do anything?

So despite any of the warning signs, instead of acting - not necessarily locking up but heavily supervising perhaps ( as they do with many ex offenders - after all why should they have to keep signing when they have done their time for their ctime?) and we wait for a precious and innocent DC to get killed? Fine. I can accept that you think that.

I guess I just have to make sure my own DS is not the one who is incident waiting to happen then. I can do that. I just make sure he isnt around "likely groups" - not a good idea is it. whatever we do?

wow, do you want them contained somewhere as well !

Me next.......yes please. I'll gladly go with seeker and SteamingNit

Are you this charming in RL ?

if you went down that route and at the same rate at which people are being thrown onto the pile of slodge (ie unemployed, disenfranchised and disadvantaged) then we would end up fairly quickly with pretty empty main stream schools. The answer is for schools to educate not further disadvantage some children.

So what is it you want? You want me to disenfranchise my DS in the name of equality is that it?

You havent answered my question there yet.

Seeker and I have a history and she has spent sometime on this thread twisting my words ( with a little help from her friends)

So you cant answer the question mini? You nare going to cut and chase off with the others?

Well that gets us everywhere doesnt it? If you cannot hold a discourse and present your views how do you hope to promote your argument?