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Changes to 11-plus to stop middle-class parents 'buying' access to grammars by hiring tutors

999 replies

breadandbutterfly · 01/12/2012 21:48

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2241411/Changes-11-plus-stop-parents-buying-access-selective-schools-hiring-tutors-children.html

Similar article in the Times apparently but paywall.

OP posts:
seeker · 02/12/2012 13:15

Oh and we have loads of modern music too.

ivykaty44 · 02/12/2012 13:24

Its not cool to work or to improve at something through work.

It has been at the two state secondary schools my dd's have attended, tbh dd1 did much better at school than I could have hoped for due to it being cool to work hard and achieve.

we have five secondary schools in the two towns but no grammer school - they need to travel 10 or 15 miles to the grammer schools, which some choose to do. There is also two indi schools and one public boys school.

Mintyy · 02/12/2012 13:35

Oh God, what make Ronaldo special was even funnier than I was expecting. And all the other Oxbridge mumsnetters are making it up! Fantastic morning's entertainment, thank you.

Takver · 02/12/2012 13:39

The thing is, I don't think there ever was a 'golden age' of grammars when the bright children of the working classes were somehow magically recognised.

There's a great passage in one of JL Carr's novels (he was a primary headteacher in his day job) where it describes the grammar school interviews - this would be 50s/60s - one of the questions the children are asked is "what does your father do", the boys are also asked questions about cricket. Strangely enough, children from the 'right' side of town get in, those from the estate don't.

Similarly, my mother (who actually is pretty positive about grammar schools) describes her school where each year had in her words a token Jewish girl, a token girl from a bad area, and sometimes a token black girl (she was the one from the bad area).

The massive difference in the 50s/60s/70s and the thing that is always ignored is that there was a massive expansion of the middle classes. So the fabled 'social mobility' that people talk about didn't actually include many people going down - only people going up the social strata. And at the same time there was a substantial reduction in income inequality between social classes, and an increase in the proportion of national income going to labour (as opposed to capital).

In that situation, of course there isn't the same pressure to get your dc into the 'best' school - you could be pretty certain that they would get a job when they left school, and also have a good chance that it would be a better job than you had yourself.

And even if they didn't - well, everyone was getting a better income year on year, there was a good social safety net, and overall you expected them to have a better quality of life regardless.

JugglingWithPossibilities · 02/12/2012 13:44

I could say that I know famous people, went to a Russel group Uni, have professional qualifications, have lived abroad, go to the opera and the ballet, listen to classical music, children play flute and trumpet etc etc

But I would never see myself in those terms or boast about it on Mumsnet wonders if got away with stealth boasting

Omits to mention shopping at LIDL, watching Strictly etc. etc.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 13:53

Your middleclassness is showing juggling. Never shop atLidl ( thats the m/c ers whose income is stretched). Real wimmin' shop at Asda.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 13:56

He's only 6 years old and you have his life mapped out for him. Sometimes dc don't follow what their parents expect of them

I have not mappedanything out for him. All his options are open . There are only two words I will not allow - the "F" word and the "C" word - we do not allow fail and we do not allow cant.
He can do anything else he likes

Arisbottle · 02/12/2012 14:08

I think for you Ronaldo it is all in the thought of being superior and it would be foolish to think that there are not others in the independent sector who feel the same .

It is not something I understand though and I think you are doing the independent sector a disservice by making out that you fit in because of your superiority complex .

If I were your employer I would be quite concerned that you were peddling such drivel and outdated stereotypes.

breadandbutterfly · 02/12/2012 14:13

Go away, Ronaldo. This thread is about grammar schools, not your tedious son or astonishingly tedious views. FWIW, the only thing to distinguish your life from those of the majority of my acquaintance is that you are older than most. You are also ruder, more snobbish and precisely the reason I would never send my child to a private school - because of the risk that the majority of parents and worse, children, there, would be as ghastly as you are.

Is there any chance that if you opt to remain on this thread you could STICK TO THE TOPIC? Or is that beyond your supposed intellect??

OP posts:
Arisbottle · 02/12/2012 14:18

I do not think that Ronaldo represents the average independent school parent either.

Most of my friends who independently educate their children would not wish to be associated with such ideas.

JugglingWithPossibilities · 02/12/2012 14:25

Before we get back to the topic do you mind if I just say, in response to Ronaldo, that I go to the opera because I like Puccini, and I go to LIDL because I like their £3.99 Bailey's substitute Grin

And only one word is banned - by DH - in our family. That's the B word - as in "I'm bored !"

My music teacher had a motto "I can and I will" which is OK I think, but I'd be worried about children growing up being told that "Can't" and "Fail" are banned words. I think you'd need to add something like "If you've never failed at anything you haven't given yourself enough of a challenge" Smile
And that old classic "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again"

SolomanDaisy · 02/12/2012 14:32

I am interested in how Ronaldo's child has become bilingual living in an English-speaking household. I do hope the story involves Dora the Explorer.

Toughasoldboots · 02/12/2012 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Toughasoldboots · 02/12/2012 14:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GlitKnit · 02/12/2012 14:40

Ronaldo.

If he is a doctor how wil he speak to patients ? Through a translation service. ?

OxandAssinine · 02/12/2012 14:41

Ronaldo

If you met many of us and our children I bet you'd struggle to sort out who had been privately educated and who had been state educated. You are making huge generalisations which undermine your claims of superior intelligence. The is lots of overlap of manners, attitudes and living habits between people who choose private and state education.

In my dcs comp, achievement is not scoffed at, the top streams have exceptional results. They send 5 or so children to Oxbridge every year, many to Russell group. Our dcs are high ability (hate term gifted), we eat at the table, read, discuss interesting things and many of the other bizarre lifestyle details that you identify as the preserve of the privaetly educated.

My father achieved success by your rather ridiculous measure of being in 'who's who?'. He also dined privately with the queen on numerous occasions but would never have mentioned it, as name dropping was not his style.

You are going to bring up a child who believes he is better than others, which will not make the world a better place.

SoupDragon · 02/12/2012 14:45

It was completely unnecessary and out of order to refer to Ronaldo's son as "tedious"

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 14:47

I think the comment on grammar schools has been clearly made. For most of us ( I say us as it includes me) they are not an option. They do not exist in most places.

You can attempt to buy as much capital in those places as you like, it wont make a lot of difference. The future of most children is sewn up long before they start school let alone go to a grammar school.

Its not going to make an earth shattering difference . State is state.

GlitKnit · 02/12/2012 14:49

So. High court judge from a state school is a failure ?

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 14:50

And that old classic "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again

That is the difference between success and failure. You do not fail if you continue to try.

The state system - partiicularly grammar schools are really about failure - failing the majority to sponsor a few and even then there has to be roon at the top for those few. That room is occupied by you know who ( those whose schooling cannot be mentioned here)

GlitKnit · 02/12/2012 14:52

When did you last go into a school? A state school ?

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 14:53

So. High court judge from a state school is a failure ?

Name one - who isnt my age or older. In my day there was room in the system because the war had left a big gap in the system where bright grammar school and those with ambition could walk through ( with help). Now the ruling elite are back to strength and promoting their own again.

Sorry to disillusion you so badly there.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/12/2012 14:56

Ronaldo your list is the most mundane, ordinary and perfectly unremarkable thing I've seen in a while! Shan't even bother to comment on how lots of my daughters' friends are of dual heritage, travel a lot, and even eat meals with their families..... But what I REALLY want to know is why you described yourself and your wife (who, uniquely and shockingly, you love) as 'avante garde'. How so?

noddyholder · 02/12/2012 15:00

Threads like this really make me lose the will to live.

Ronaldo · 02/12/2012 15:05

My father achieved success by your rather ridiculous measure of being in 'who's who?'. He also dined privately with the queen on numerous occasions but would never have mentioned it, as name dropping was not his style

Where have I named any names? I was just offerring examples and then there were no names. Stop being pretentious.