Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

How exactly do you know that your DC should go to grammar school?

317 replies

plus3 · 05/10/2012 11:06

Sorry for the ridiculous question, but I am going slightly bonkers.

DS is in yr 4 and has unspecified learning difficulties - mainly with attention and processing instructions. He is bright & remembers incredibly well. Literacy & science are his favourite subjects, and thinks he struggles with Maths but is actually above average. He craves structure and routine

My problem is that I am aware of some children in his class already doing extra work out of school (such as explore & kumon etc) and I now feel like I am letting him down hugely.

Should we be jumping on the treadmill of extra work etc to give him an even playing field? I don't really believe in excesses coaching to pass the 11+

So how do we tell if Grammer could be the place for him? When I have spoken to school, they always imply that academically he will be fine (whatever that means)

Sorry if this long & rambling, it all seems so very competitive around here (Bucks) thanks.

OP posts:
Yellowtip · 07/10/2012 22:35

And jabed, lighten up. I was being flip. But you don't half bang on about your DS's intellectual prowess aged 6 (or 5 or 7, possibly 8). Love your metaphysical spelling btw. Of course I don't wish a small child ill - if you believe that, you're getting way too deeply into MN. And I'm not too hung up on what I may have failed to achieve , life's vastly too short.

Yellowtip · 07/10/2012 23:00

Talkin there are 164 not 134 btw. Just saying.

Mordion absolutely right re. watch and learn.

seeker · 07/10/2012 23:05

And whatever you think about the grammar school system, it is very silly to say that they "under perform" academically.

Arisbottle · 07/10/2012 23:16

I think some of they do under perform academically to be honest .

alcofrolic · 07/10/2012 23:29

The teaching in core subjects (particularly of sub-top sets (!)) was desperate at ds's grammar, and I would imagine a significant number of boys 'under-performed' (particularly as the maths was being taught incorrectly).

All in all it was a very disappointing experience of secondary education - narrow curriculum and uninspired teaching (on the whole).

Original poster
plus3 · 07/10/2012 23:35

jabed sorry, but it isn't clear cut with my DS, hence the question. I was just surprised at some of the children who are being tutored already in DS class.

I will admit to be naive about the process & feel the need to buck up. Both DH & I are graduates, but from different educational backgrounds. We recognise that one approach doesn't suit all.

Wasn't aware we were living in a backwater county though Smile

OP posts:
naughtymummy · 08/10/2012 00:29

Alcofrolic what you say is very interesting.I was discussing this with dh this very week(we have also got year 4 ds and on the advice of his teachers we have been to see some grammar schools this week).

We were asking ourselves, if ds was bright enough to get in to a GS. Then wouldn't he do just as well in the top set of the comprehensive.

LittleFrieda · 08/10/2012 01:18

Jabed - Danny Alexander, Stephen Twigg, Ed Miliband, David Miliband ...

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:34

jabed just a word of warning. Never use too many superlatives about your dc. Never inflict your hopes and dreams on them.
Remember that they are individuals with their own thoughts, feelings, aspirations and ideas

Children have a nasty habit of deviating from their parents' aspirations, and going their own sweet way!

Without prejudice,
I think that is an unfair comment because nowhere have I placed any suggestion of any hopes or dreams for him. In fact I have none. I am waiting to see what he decides on. He is too young for that now.

I am sorry if being open about his intelligence level causes jealousy. I will remember in future lots of MNers do not like that. Thank you for reminding me I am not allowed to say he is up at the top of the IQ rank. Its not done in this country (I had thought things might have changed but seems not)

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:37

Jabed - Danny Alexander, Stephen Twigg, Ed Miliband, David Miliband

Some "comprehensive" the Millibands went to there! Pull the other one.

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:38

And another word or warning, jabed. Don't disparage other people's options. particularly when you're disparaging from a position of ignorance

I am not disparaging anyone. I think you are reading more than is there.

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:39

Yellowtip - for the record ( and I have never deviated - so dont make lies up) he has just turned SIX.

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:41

And one thing yellowtip , you should never comment on " spelling". In my case old arthritic hands and fat fingers make for many typos. But to comment on spelling is very much the sign of someone who has no argument and needs to distract from their own jealousy, ignorance and poor manners.

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:44

And whatever you think about the grammar school system, it is very silly to say that they "under perform" academically

When you consider that all these schools are highly selective and select for academic ability which should be demonstrated in the ability to pass through the examination system without failure, then they underperform.

There should never be less that a GCSE A* performance from any of them. They should never have less than A grades at A level. That is clearly not the case. They underperform.

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:46

I think some of they do under perform academically to be honest

Arisbottle, many of those around me underperform, thats why I mentioned it. Thanks.

jabed · 08/10/2012 05:50

jabed sorry, but it isn't clear cut with my DS, hence the question. I was just surprised at some of the children who are being tutored already in DS class

I am not surprised about the tutoring. Its commonplace but not always admitted, therefore probably more common than you may believe. The problem is that the 11+ tests are sensitve to such coaching ( even though those who pass by such methods may well fall back later) and that skews the 11+ results.

If your DC is borderline, then you need to look carefully I think. Even if they were not, getting thriough against all the coached individuals may not be easy.

Yellowtip · 08/10/2012 08:06

jabed really! I simply didn't know your DS's age.

I thought you were a mathematician jabed. Your argument about GCSE As doesn't add up. Only 2% of students achieve all As so quite how you manage a synthesis between that and the fact that even the most superselective takes the top 5% of the ability range I really don't know. As for the Kent grammars taking the top quartile - come on!

Presumably you'll apply the same logic to selective independents as well? The highly selective Magdalen College School had four students only with a straight run of 11 A*s - are you going to take that sort of performance to task?

Yellowtip · 08/10/2012 08:07

Four students in 2012 that is.

seeker · 08/10/2012 08:28

"There should never be less that a GCSE A* performance from any of them. They should never have less than A grades at A level. That is clearly not the case. They underperform."

Are there any schools in any sector that achieve this?

jabed · 08/10/2012 08:33

The highly selective Magdalen College School had four students only with a straight run of 11 As - are you going to take that sort of performance to task?*

Did they really? We had more than that in my relatively mediocre partially selective independent. Just shows you how coaching can benefit doesnt it?

I think you will find the % A* at GCSE is a little higher than your 2% when across all boards. Its around 7% in fact ( have done the stas not read them off a list)

jabed · 08/10/2012 08:36

Are there any schools in any sector that achieve this?

There are some in the independent sector who seem to get very close to this legitimately. I know of one grammar school who has claimed it this year but I also know they fiddled the figures.:) They sat a lot of those who would not reach the mark as private candidtates or registered them at another school.

seeker · 08/10/2012 08:38

Name them.

Until I actually have evidence I will continue to find it hard to believe that any school achieves 100% A* at GCSE.

jabed · 08/10/2012 08:39

Ditto seeker

seeker · 08/10/2012 08:40

I don't understand.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 08/10/2012 08:47

Oh, the fat fingers line again.... 'tutorledge' indeed!

Nobody is jealous of your son, Jabed. But it's very silly to say of a small boy that he's a dead cert for anything that's years in the future.