How exactly do you know that your DC should go to grammar school?

[plus3]

Sorry for the ridiculous question, but I am going slightly bonkers.

DS is in yr 4 and has unspecified learning difficulties - mainly with attention and processing instructions. He is bright & remembers incredibly well. Literacy & science are his favourite subjects, and thinks he struggles with Maths but is actually above average. He craves structure and routine

My problem is that I am aware of some children in his class already doing extra work out of school (such as explore & kumon etc) and I now feel like I am letting him down hugely.

Should we be jumping on the treadmill of extra work etc to give him an even playing field? I don't really believe in excesses coaching to pass the 11+

So how do we tell if Grammer could be the place for him? When I have spoken to school, they always imply that academically he will be fine (whatever that means)

Sorry if this long & rambling, it all seems so very competitive around here (Bucks) thanks.

[plus3]

Anyway giving up now.

Will try the love bombing idea - can only make us all happy

[seeker]

I think you really need to talk to the individual school. My dd's grammar school prides itself on it's SEN provision- but another local grammar looks away and shuffles it's feet if such a thing is mentioned. I really don't think there is a "type" of school that is best for SEN- it is the particular school that either is or is not.

[MordionAgenos]

@frieda that's a shame but it's not the same everywhere. I have seen a big difference in what is on offer in the same primary school from DD1 (who is now in Y10) and Dd2 who is in Y5. Some of the schemes, like In Harmony, are not on stream yet everywhere. When I was at primary school music only started in Y3, mind you (and this was at a school which made a Big Thing of music). When Dd1 started at the primary there was NO music. Now (partly as a result of the fuss we made, the example she set which made other parents enquire about music etc and the actual going in and helping which both I and DH did) the school has loads of kids learning with peris, whole class instrument lessons from Y3 onwards (paid for by wider opportunities), a choir and an orchestra. If I hadn't seen the changes myself and lived through them I wouldn't believe it either, but obviously I know what has happened at our school because I've lived through it. Hopefully you and other parents can be catalysts for similar change at your primary......

[seeker]

I don't want to derail the OP's thread even further, but I wanted to make sure that everyone knows about Music for Schools here. They are fantastic.

And mordion- it goes without saying that there will be more children who have had some musical education in a grammar school than a high school.

[seeker]

The top sets of q comprehensive are the same as grammar!

[TalkinPeace2]

seeker
The top sets of many comps are indeed comparable with grammars and indies
BUT
only heads of department get to teach exclusively top sets
at DCs school, every teacher has to do their stint with sets 4 and 5 - where some kids are very willing and others could make one believe in Eugenics.
Those sets are missing from Grammars and Indies

on the other hand, some of the 'academic' set 5 kids are astounding sportsmen, musicians and artists - which is the selective schools loss and our gain.

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

Sorry is set 4 and 5 the bottom or top sets?

[TalkinPeace2]

Bottom.
Not much call for eugenics in set 1.
A cattle prod to stop them being lippy (including my DCs) though !

[MordionAgenos]

@seeker No, it really doesn't.

[MordionAgenos]

@seeker and no, they aren't. Not in SS areas. Maybe in Kent. But as we keep trying to tell you, Kent is not the world.

[MordionAgenos]

@talkin IME you are right about both the sporty Ones and the musicians. :)

[seeker]

Grammar school kids generally come from more privileged and educated backgrounds than high school kids. Their parents are far more likely to have had the knowledge and the money to provide music lessons. Simple.

[MordionAgenos]

@talkin and even more so if you had included the theatrical or dancer ones.

[MordionAgenos]

@talkin and even more so if you had included the theatrical or dancer ones.

[MordionAgenos]

@talkin and even more so if you had included the theatrical or dancer ones.

[seeker]

In a completely comprehnsive area, assuming that the super selective candidates went to state school, they would form the top of the top set. The top sets would be the kids who would go to"ordinary" grammar schools. And everyone else would be the high school.

Or am I missing something?

[PropositionJoe]

Seeker - you are very keen to tell us ad nauseum why grammar schools are a bad idea. But have you considered learning about the ones outside Kent? If you look at Trafford or North Yorkshire you might see that some of the secondary moderns are excellent and the overall standard extremely high.

[MordionAgenos]

You are missing the point that the SS kids would form a tiny proportion of the top set (if the kids who go to DD1s school were at the comps they would have gone to without the SS, there would be at most 4 at DSs school. The other 6 would be spread between the 4 other comps). 4 kids doesn't make a top set. And that's assuming that none of them went to the posh schools (and at least 2 would). It might be slightly different at @yellow's nearest comp because more kids go to the SS from near her but not, I think, 30 in any year group.

[MordionAgenos]

She only cares about Kent. Which I can understand - what I can't understand is her refusal to accept that Kent isn't an analogue for anywhere else.

[TalkinPeace2]

Seeker
I have to admit that your view of comps is very distorted by the lens of Kent.

Here in Hampshire each of the comps has a catchment, from whence between 60 and 80% of its kids come.
The remainder come from neighbouring catchments (especially on the Southampton and Portsmouth borders)
I've no idea what percentage of each school would pass a random academic test to get into a Grammar (superselective or otherwise). Its irrelevant.
Because the top sets for each subject are NOT the same kids (that would be streaming).

My kids happen to be at the top academically. So they are in sets with other bright kids most but by no means all of whose parents are middle class or upper class.
But PE, Art, music, drama, design, computing - the top sets are often full of kids who would never have passed any sort of 11+

The only weirdie of the schools round here is that they do not have Sixth Forms - Hampshire use Sixth Form colleges. But that's another issue!

Have a look at the websites for Bohunt, Thornden, Kings Winchester, The Petersfield School and Ringwood School to get a feel for how access to all schools work ...

[MordionAgenos]

OP the SEN provision is excellent at Dd1s grammar. Apart from the rugby thing (now resolved. Although we have had a lab accident this week resulting in burned fingers and a minimum of 5 missed music lessons which I am very pissed off about - however the upside is that the boy who caused Dd1 to have the accident has zinged himself more than her as she will not not be able to help him with his ensemble piece for GCSE music). It sounds to me as if your DS might actually need more stretching? If he is frustrated and depressed at school that might be one reason?

[seeker]

Indon't only care about Kent. I object very strongly to all selective education, although I have been persuaded by people on here that there is an argument for the super selectives.

But I''m not up for a kicking at the moment, so I'll be off. With a reminder to the OP that, particularly when it comes to SEN, it's the individual school you have to look at, not the type of school.

[TalkinPeace2]

Seeker
I did not say you only cared about Kent. But the Kent system is one of the most dysfunctional (and that is per DH's work there long before I discovered the joys of Mumsnet)
Lincolnshire make it work - I suspect because they are NOT next door to London.
Bucks are teeny
and everywhere else the grammars are a comparatively minor fly in the ointmnent
but in Mid and southern Kent (not sure where you are) the schools are very distorted - and you are caught in the middle of it.

That is one of the reasons I suggested to plus3 that she moves OUT of a grammar area in the next couple of years to alleviate that area of stress.

[PropositionJoe]

I didn't say you only care about Kent either. I said you only know about Kent.