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Original poster

Those of you in favour of grammar schools, come and tell me what to say to my Ds...

999 replies

seeker · 19/08/2012 10:34

He woke up crying in the night because the reality had just hit him that he won't be going to school with his close friends in September because he failed the 11+ in September. "I can't be very bright, can I mum, or I would have passed" " no, it was just one of those things-you're going to a good school, you'll be fine" "I know- but if i was clever I'd be going to school with X and Y" "You are clever- look at your SATs-you'll be in the top set at the high school because of those" " it's not SATS that are important, though, it's the 11+"

Do you want to have more kids feeling like that? Then campaign for more grammar schools,

OP posts:
Original poster
seeker · 21/08/2012 22:04

Piano mama- s I have said repeatedly, I am not blaming they system for my son''s performance. The system was not specifically unfair to my Ds. It is generally unfair to each cohort of children that go through it. It was not the system that caused my child to perform like a particularly intellectually challenged goldfish on the day!

OP posts:
Greythorne · 21/08/2012 22:06

Do you know why he performed poorly on the day?

LittleFrieda · 21/08/2012 22:07

seeker - was it on one day, the test?

Original poster
seeker · 21/08/2012 22:07

Nope!

OP posts:
Original poster
seeker · 21/08/2012 22:09

Sorry, no to greythorne, yes to frieda.

OP posts:
LittleFrieda · 21/08/2012 22:11

"my child to perform like a particularly intellectually challenged goldfish on the day!"

No he didn't. He performed like a 10 year old boy for whom it is absolutely normal to have good days and bad days, energetic days and very tired days. For someone who claims to abhor the system that's a rather schizophrenic thing to say about your small boy, who is obviously hurting about his performance.

Yellowtip · 21/08/2012 22:12

For a child with those stats, he was either ill, or felt under excessive pressure, or deliberately messed up. There may be other explanations, but none obvious to me. What do you tend to think was the real reason for him not getting through seeker, even through appeal?

LittleFrieda · 21/08/2012 22:13

It seems crazy to have all that one ONE day. I think a Mumsnet campaign about spreading it over two or even 3 days would be sensible. My degree exams were 3 hours, and I remember how exhausted I felt coming out of them.

pianomama · 21/08/2012 22:14

I really would bite the bridle and start preparing for 13+ now (do they have them at grammar schools?).

rabbitstew · 21/08/2012 22:14

Back in my day, the test was on one day. You didn't have separate English and Maths papers, just verbal and non-verbal reasoning mixed in together in the one test, unless my memory is faulty. I don't understand the justification for English and Maths papers in addition, or different tests for every grammar school in the area, which some grammar schools now seem to require, if the aim is to get the brightest children, not the best-educated-to-date. At least the verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests are a smidgeon closer to testing a child's potential, rather than current achievement.

rabbitstew · 21/08/2012 22:16

It certainly wasn't a long test - hardly exhausting, just very easy to mess up if you were having a bad hour or so...

InkyBinky · 21/08/2012 22:17

seeker. How is your DS today, I hope he is feeling better. Smile

I am keeping out the bunfight

pianomama · 21/08/2012 22:17

I think you cant separate one from another rabbit. If the brightest chid has not been taught the basics by that age, he is going to struggle.The more bright child knows, the brighter he/she gets.There is no pure "brightness" without education.

Toughasoldboots · 21/08/2012 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rabbitstew · 21/08/2012 22:20

Of course not, but it remains a fact that some people need more education to appear bright than others and, to be extremely rude and provocative, you can't polish a turd.

rabbitstew · 21/08/2012 22:21

When I come to think of it, it is pretty ridiculous to decide a child's future on the basis of one hour and a quarter, or whatever it was, on one day when they are only 10 or 11 years old (plus headteacher's opinion.... which opens another can of worms, given that I remember some parents complaining that the HT was biased and deliberately talked some children up and others down, depending on whether he liked the parents, an argument that was successful in a few cases, shortly before said HT left the school....).
ps West Kent is better stocked with super selectives, which are more likely, I reckon, to ask for students to do maths and English papers, not just reasoning, since they need more to go on than lots of people with full marks in their VR and NVR tests.

Greythorne · 21/08/2012 22:22

The exams are not long, would not really make sense to spread them
Over several days.

Seeker - in what way is the exam not competitive?

peteneras · 21/08/2012 22:24

Don't have time or should I say, cannot be bothered, to go through 600-plus postings on this thread - just read the last dozen or so posts - but very well said, pianomama. Couldn't agree more.

By the way, am b*dy proud to say DP and I "tutored" our kids the day they were born and still "tutoring" them now in their late teens/early twenties - whatever 'tutoring' means. Wink

mam29 · 21/08/2012 22:25

Not sure anyone else asked this as bit personal you may not know.

but not all parents are honest

not all kids compare.

The 2mates that are going grammer.

did they achieve lower sats?
did their parents tutor them?

I guess it could be his performance on day.

yes hes bright but the other 150 people acheived higher score.

entrance tests 11+are very ruthless
could come down to 1-2marks

but you failed appeal not sure what else could do?

do places come up mid year? could he resit?

Toughasoldboots · 21/08/2012 22:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pianomama · 21/08/2012 22:31

rabbit , in case of 11+ you CAN polish a turd.They are just not hard enough. All that is needed is a systematic preparation. It is not a rocket science. If you can overcome your laziness and DC resistance.

rabbitstew · 21/08/2012 22:34

There is tutoring and tutoring. Some people think it is a shame to spend a large chunk of their child's spare time in childhood teaching them exam technique and would rather they developed their child's intelligence by exploring the world around them, learning new skills, sharing fresh, new ideas. Some people can fit both in (I think more than actually think this is the case, because I'm sure some people go into overdrive on the whole exam preparation thing...), but the perception seems to be that a few must have sacrificed genuine enjoyment and experience of the world around them and learning that way, in order to cram for exams, to the point that passing exams becomes the whole purpose of school and the content of the exam of little relevance or interest outside the exam hall.

Yellowtip · 21/08/2012 22:35

I may be a little prosaic peterenas, but in exactly what way did you tutor your children on the day they were born?

And I'm interested to know how you think they'd have fared in life had they not been so tutored each and every day of their lives - if, for example they'd been left to get on with education with mere teachers as my children (and no doubt many other people's children) have done? Did it advantage them greatly?

rabbitstew · 21/08/2012 22:36

I would have thought a polished turd would have little understanding of the relevance of his shininess.

TheFallenMadonna · 21/08/2012 22:37

An exam for which parents have the responsibility to prepare their children is going to be socially selective, isn't it? And not particularly effective at differentiating ability.