Something EVERY parent of a child in a UK State school should know about

[QualifiedTeacher]

The UK Government has new proposals to allow non qualified teachers to teach in UK schools. This means our children?s education may be placed in the hands of teachers without basic qualifications such as English and Maths GSCE let alone a Bachelors degree. This policy will mainly be affecting children from the lower economic backgrounds and the reasoning behind employing unqualified teachers is simply because it costs less.

I have attached an epetition which gives more information and is asking for signatures to oppose the use of unqualified teachers in UK State schools. If the numbers signing this petition is large enough, we can get the debate discussed in the UK Parliament. Please help and protect the education of all UK children in State schools.

Thanks

QTS? Mine was a four year degree to include the QTS aspects, so theoretically identikit to a standard BA followed by one year PGCE?

Not really - a 4 year degree with QTS aspects would be much more detailed than a 10 month PGCE. But my point was that PGCE and QTS seem interchangeable and therefore confused to lots of posters on these threads, when they are quite different. The issue isn't to do with PGCEs.

Although what was to stop said brilliant Physics academic a few posts ago from just doing a post grad qualification, if he wanted to teach that much?

This is not abut cheapness, tho' - is it? Its about freeing up schools to get get really good, enthusiastic, motivated poeple to teach, even if they don;t happen to tick the 'qualified' box. One of the best teachers i know ( as it ahppens, in a state school), got under the wire without a GCSE maths just befre it was outlawed. failed it several times - he is an INSPIRED languages teacher, in a northern town where generally languages are not sought after subjects - get amazing grades at gcse, and over-subscribed A level courses. There would be a riot if he left his (state) school. But he isn't 'qualified'. Tell that to the happy parents, and the school kids who have got to Oxbridge and other RG unis from an otherwise unremarkable state school...

It's entirely symptomatic of the state system as a whole. Not just education, across the board.

Do more. With less. For less. Or fuck off out of the way and let someone else do it. Or we'll close it all down and give it to the voluntary sector. Or someone who's going to pay to take it off our hands as they think they can do it better / make some money out of it.

The entire thing is monumentally depressing, but I don't see any particular acceleration of societal decay in this proposal. (I don't see current state schooling as rebuilding or repairing it, either)

Mine have always been in the state sector btw. In various schools. In various places. I'm not particularly concerned that it will lead to a lowering of already abysmal standards.

I'm a bit confused about your argument, now though. It started off as inexorable decline in standards, but most replies seem finance driven.

I didn't give up my TA job because I was underpaid, overqualified and overwrought, but because the entire system wasn't focused on the needs of the child (ren) but on budgets. So I understand your argument. I just don't particularly agree that this decision in isolation will make much difference.

You believe that the current system is letting down pupils as there already schools and authorities getting around the 'qualifications' requirements. What difference is formalising their behavior actually going to make?

I blame apple.

I think it has to do with de-unionisation, to allow academies to fiddle with pay and conditions as it suits them.

'This is not abut cheapness, tho' - is it?'

Er, yes. You can pay non-teachers the minimum wage for doing a teacher's job when a teacher would cost significantly more.

'Its about freeing up schools to get get really good, enthusiastic, motivated poeple to teach'

This is very naive. Independent schools can already do this although they rarely do. However, it is unlikely that you would get really good people queuing up to teach in urban comps for the same pay as they could get working in Tesco is it? Come on.

If your 'inspired language teacher' wants to teach then why doesn't he or she do a PGCE?? I don't get it. What's stopping him?

Feenie - sure, not disagreeing. I'm not sure that the individual differences in which route to 'qualification' matter in this context? (genuinely curious, not Barney!) it might have been explained in the petition link?

Is there a proposal to suggest that only one of these (QTS degree or PGCE) would now count as 'qualified'? The hierarchical teacher training stuff is interesting (I'm very interested in teach first!) but am faintly floundering why that hierarchy becomes more important if none of it will be necessary?

Sod it, I reckon I am a born train driver. I bet I would be brilliant at it. I could go and do it tomorrow and wreck a train/kill lots of passengers, or I could go through the requisite training.

I may well go on to be a fabulous train driver - but I would still need a certain amount of training to begin with.

Why are some posters obsessed with the idea that these oh so inspiring academics can just walk into a classroom? They might well go on to be amazing teachers - but there are certain things they need to know first, and learn from.

Feenie - sure, not disagreeing. I'm not sure that the individual differences in which route to 'qualification' matter in this context? (genuinely curious, not Barney!) it might have been explained in the petition link?

It's a misunderstanding on all these threads, where people refer to any kind of teaching qualification status as a PGCE. They mean QTS. That's all!

Oh, right, didn't see the thing about Maths GCSE. Well that IS harsh but there are lots of lots of jobs and most universities require Maths GCSE as a bare minimum. If you make an exception for this chappy where do you draw the line. That's also a tough one.

Friend of mine did a History of Art BA. (abroad) followed by a 9 month teaching course in the UK. Can't spell or add for shit...(neither math or English was a requirement for the BA) parents love her for her enthusiasm. Currently teaching Primary in which the students have passed her knowledge of the basics..

They are breaking down the terms and conditions of teachers employment bitby bit to take away the power of the unions. It is so obvious Deregulating, dequalifying, depressing. Academies privately funded and run for profit.

Education is not a corporate business in a civilised society.

I will sign this petition.

Qualified teachers in the state schools deserve to be paid appropriately as professionals.

If you want to teach get some proper training.

Teaching assistants should be just that, assisting qualified teachers, paid less because they have less responsibility.

Thank you for sharing this QT.

You do not have to do a PGCE to get QTS, there are now Bachelor degrees in Education and other subjects with QTS which are only 3 years long, there are in school training schemes such as the Graduate Teachers Programme, Teach First, Registered Teachers Programme, Overseas Teacher Programme etc. which assess what you need to learn and you can train in as little as 3 months to up to 2 years, if you have the relevant experience.

But once you have QTS i.e gone through some kind of State recognised training, you cost a whole lot more and yes, you can have an unqualified teacher covering a class being paid minimum wage.

The Bachelor of Education qualification has been around since the mid 1960s QualifiedTeacher before the PGCE was introduced

Xenia, re the qualifications of the staff on your list, I am familiar with staff at one of those schools. It is a policy in MANY schools not to list PGCEs but of course to list down BEds (Bachelor of Education). Therefore my qualifications have simply read BA, MA when I am in fact, BA, MA, PGCE.

It is misleading and we have asked schools to put in our PGCE because some parents assume we aren't formally trained but having QTS is very much the norm and expected in top State schools. I doubt very much schools like this will ever revert to using unqualified teachers on minimum wages but some will.

MRZ

I said there are now 3 year Bachelor degrees with QTS, previously BEds were mainly 4 years long. This means students will be able to save £9,000 by studying for 3 years as opposed to 4. It is possible to get a BA with QTS, it does not have to be in Education.

If unqualified teachers are as capable as qualified teachers of doing the job, they should be paid the same salary.

That way, you can be sure that the unqualified teacher is not being employed as a cost saving measure.

Inexplicably, this is not happening, and Gove is making no assurances that it will. I wonder why

And it is because of policies like this that my husband has accepted a teaching post abroad and we as a family are emigrating in 21/2 weeks time and the UK is losing an excellent teacher.

Because surely, Gove has washed his hands of the whole business of pay and conditions in an academy? It has left it up to academies what they want to do.

This is NUT guidance for a new appointee in an academy:

As noted earlier, teachers who are newly appointed to Academies are not automatically employed under the terms of the School Teachers? Pay and Conditions Document (STPCD) and the Burgundy Book national agreement on conditions of service. Each Academy is able to decide for itself the form of pay and conditions arrangements for newly appointed teachers.

The NUT seeks to negotiate on pay and conditions for teachers with all Academies. In these negotiations, the NUT seeks, as its over-riding priority, to secure the application of the STPCD provisions on pay structure, pay levels and working time and the Burgundy Book national agreement on conditions of service, or closely comparable arrangements, for all teachers newly appointed to the Academy as well as those transferred from any predecessor school under TUPE arrangements. The NUT will, where necessary, consult members with regard to action up to and including industrial action to secure such arrangements.

If teachers aren't qualified, they won't be eligible for union membership, and salary decisions will be made by the academy.
Who will they be accountable to?

I should have added in Senior school, I would not expect a Chemistry/ Physics teacher to have an English A level but certainly would expect a degree at least in the subject.

Just an aside

A quarter of my children's primary school teachers have emigrated in the last 2 years. If you can get out, I'd suggest looking.

Flexybex

I know the NUT doesn't accept unqualified teachers, but I'm not sure of the others. HLTAs, TAs and CSs, can get cover under Unison.

Re accountability, I don't understand that. All teachers are accountable to the head teacher I would assume. And there is another issue, it's now easier to get rid of teachers, they have changed the warning systems so that teachers can be removed from school much quickly. It is perceived that those that will be most likely to be removed under this system are older teachers who cost more.

Remember, after 5 years in teaching, you generally cost £10,000 more.

Good luck with that. And I wouldn't recommend trying it with just GTP, as it isn't recognized worldwide. She's (I think) degree/ PGCE, rather than any other combo, and taught in UK for years.

Perhaps union membership will become available to the non-qualified teachers.

I hope all academy HTs are honest, fair and objective.....

It already is available flexybex

Done.