Something EVERY parent of a child in a UK State school should know about

[QualifiedTeacher]

The UK Government has new proposals to allow non qualified teachers to teach in UK schools. This means our children?s education may be placed in the hands of teachers without basic qualifications such as English and Maths GSCE let alone a Bachelors degree. This policy will mainly be affecting children from the lower economic backgrounds and the reasoning behind employing unqualified teachers is simply because it costs less.

I have attached an epetition which gives more information and is asking for signatures to oppose the use of unqualified teachers in UK State schools. If the numbers signing this petition is large enough, we can get the debate discussed in the UK Parliament. Please help and protect the education of all UK children in State schools.

Thanks

Which brings me neatly back to my train driving. I would welcome the opportunity to start without any training at all. I'm not saying it will be easy, but I am actually used to challenging things. I am sure I am up to it - how hard can it be?

Esker - in the real world you would be welcomed with open arms!

Esker, if you followed one of the intensive teacher training routes I and other qualified teachers have and passed, then yes.

I took the PGCE route and am still exploring avenues of developing my teaching and learning skills. For instance, I am particulary interested in looking at how to support children with specific learning difficulties in my own subject specialism. There is so much research in teaching and learning because there is so much improvements that still have to be made.

Nobody is stating it is currently perfect.

Not all children are acheiving to the best of their abilities and this is with the efforts that many teachers are currently putting in place. I am a secondary teacher and my subject specialism means that I have only ONE HOUR a week with students at KS3. I have ONE HOUR to get them on task, to get them learning. I am not an English teacher who has several hours a week with them. I have to get my students on task, pronto. They have to be engaged, if not, nothing is taught.

In some schools this is easy in others it in not. 'Miss this boring!', ' I hate subject X!' etc. I have learnt strategies to deal with this. We have to engage ALL children in learning . In all honesty, I would not have a clue without the training I have had and of course, the books and books I have read and am still reading. They don't call it Continual Professional Development (CPD) for nothing, you know.

I personally will regard my training in classroom teaching completed once I retire.

Esker - in the real world you would be welcomed with open arms!

Really? So, in the real world, you can go into any career with zero training, Mrs Guy? I can be a dentist, with no training, can I? I can be an engineer, with no training? I can practise psychology - with no training?

And that's the real world, you say?

Feenie

I always fancied myself as a brain surgeon, you know doing life or death surgery and rushing down the ward to the patient. 'Doctor Scot, you have arrived!' I would rush into the operating theatre whilst being briefed by the top surgeon saying, 'I knew only you could do this. Thanks for chartering the flight all the way from Maine.' (I'd be in America you see).

Go for it, QT - I bet you would be a natural

Mrs Guy, I think you may possibly be confusing the real world with cloud cuckoo land.

Are you sure Feenie, you don't think my lack of TOTAL lack medical training will in any way jeopardise my patients lives?

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll try!

How hard can it be?

I actually wonder that these education initiatives are a positive thing in many ways...
If a school budget can keep a teacher base ratio and use more of the budget to bring in support staff....

surely that would mean the education is delivered well and overseen well AND that children are better supported by the fact there are more 'hands on' support staff

Teachers teach and support staff support the learning and all round well being of the pupil's....

A teacher trying to teach right now in the current system is spending probably 1/3 of their time (if not more)...disciplining, trying to support and encourage individual's...if there is going to be a strong support staff then surely this would mean better education for all and SEN, SN pupils especially will benefit as will every pupil's education???

I would definitely be in support of this change if it meant this was the result...a huge step forward for our children and in meeting their needs more fully....and alot less chance of children falling through the net and being lost (as too many are doing within the current system imo)

Feenie

Rang up my local hospital just now. There are no employment opportunities to work as unqualified brain surgeon although I could work as a nurse's aid on minimum pay. I asked could I move from a being nurse's aid to being a nurse, I was told, NO unless I TRAINED as a nurse.

I'm gutted. Why don't they allow this for all professions like they do in teaching? It's so unfair!

Whatthebleep, there are other things happening in the school budget such as billions of pounds being taken away from supporting SEN in schools.

Schools are going to have their budgts slashed further therefore they are not looking for additional support staff, the support staff will be taking over the role of some of the teaching staff. Schools are looking at ways of maintaining staff numbers and cuting costs, less than half price unqualified teachers is only one.

I also see how this would benefit the whole system....if there are more staff then the ability to spot a pupil who is struggling and that being recognised earlier would allow a better Dx and planning and assessment for those pupil's...one teacher in a class of 25-30+ isn't in a good position to really be expected to pay enough attention and/or follow through enough with meeting specific needs....it is sorely lacking atm imo

Whatthewhathebleep. This is about employing TAS instead of qualified teachers.

QT said maintaining staff numbers, not increasing them, WWTB.

yes...perhaps I am too naive and looking at an ideal rather than the possible reality of the situation....

I expect we all want to see the positive and expect that our government are serving to do what is right for us....hhmmm...not!

I do believe that the vision I have is the best way forward for our school's system's and I think it would take a huge strain off the other system's struggling to deal with the fallout, when children have been failed and cannot cope within mainstream...there is a huge lack of provision and this is only increasing as the system keeps failing to support effectively...

this country might see institutions making a comeback so we have somewhere to put these lost soul's who have been failed so badly...

2 TAs (2 x £10,000) equals 1 NQT/MP1 (Newly Qualified Teacher) (£20-£27,000)
3 TAs equals 1 MP6, (top of mainscale teacher) (£34-£37,000)
4 TAs equals 1 UPS (Upper pay scale) Teacher (£42,000 +)

Some head teachers (HTs) are earning in excess of £120,000 and two Innner London school HTs awarded themselves £20,000 pay rises (2011) because they deemed themselves worthy of it, and so did some of the parents I might add.

If budgets are to be cut, it is not expected that HTs and senior management teachers (SMTs) take a pay cuts.

BTW The government also has proposals whereby schools are to issue the salaries of their HTs and SMTs. Should probably put the salaries of the unqualified teachers along side it.

I have to say I don't mind non-qualified people teaching as long as they are no actually called teachers but classroom/teaching assistants or some such, and they both do different things. But, however many TAs you have, you must have 1 teacher per class. So the TAs don't replace teachers but are in addition to them.

Hi there,

Apologies for getting to this one late.
This is a great discussion, so rather than delete the thread, we have edited the epetition link out of the OP.

Rebecca

I don't think it could have reached the 100,000 votes needed to enable a proper debate in the House of Commons anyway and I don't think they will be any change in the government's policy.

I think the only objective in doing this has been to raised parents' awareness.

Best wishes

yes marysBeard that would be the way I see it too...

The teacher pupil ratio may be looked at and if less qualified teaching staff are necessary to deliver the curriculum it will allow for more hands on deck within classes, then I really think it would work very well....having 2/3 staff per class has to be a huge advantage to the teacher's and the pupil's....

I understand there may be a shake up and teacher's may find it harder to find employment....same as any profession though...nothing is guaranteed and things do need to change....always winner's and loser's...

It's the children I want to see thriving and learning....not just managed and having to keep trying to cope....(as it is for so many children now in our school's)
...wouldn't it also be a good balance of opinion's when it comes to it...I have met many a teacher who won't even discuss ADHD exist's or has no experience or ability to see ASD trait's and the like....where does a parent turn to when 1 teacher's opinion is keeping a door firmly closed and just won't support effectively????.....just go into SN area here and you will see how many parent's are posting about this exact issue and how awful it can be to navigate.

WTWB there will be ONE TEACHER per class and that teacher may be an unqualified one.

I've been in schools were receptionists have worked as CSs as well, to cut down on the need for supply staff.

Many unqualified teachers are currently working in schools and taking whole lessons, and putting children through exams although they shouldn't be and some of those 'bad' teachers mentioned above may be qualified or unqualfied, you do not know because you assume they are qualified.

Regarding this government's proposal for SEN, with 20% of the SEN budget CUT and with more unqualified teachers let loose on the nation's children, I can not see how the situation can be improved. In fact, I believe we need MORE investment in schools' SEN provisions not less.

I used to have one teacher and there were up to 40 kids in the class at once.

My daughter is in a class of 25 and has one teacher, two part time TAs and two trained volunteer parents who help hear the children read.

Needless to say I massively prefer the latter!

40% of applicants for posts such as HTLAs, TAs and CSs are from qualified teachers because of the dire unemployment situation for teachers. 50,000 unemployed, remember?

Again, you never know, the teachers taking on the whole class may be unqualified, the TAs working with individual children (voluntarily or paid) may be qualified teachers.

Qualified teachers are threatening HLTAs, TAs and CSs jobs. Perhaps that should be another post.

There is a lot of tensions in schools. Qualified teachers earning less than half their rightful salaries due to their qualifications and years of experience, (I know of an Upper Pay Scale teacher currently earning £11,000 full time a year as a HLTA, a drop from a £43,000+ salary) may not be giving their, shall we say, full commitment to the roles.