Not one pupil in Knowsley went to Oxbridge last year and only 2% went to RG universities.

[thebestisyettocome]

In adjoining areas, Sefton and Halton, admission to Oxbridge was also 0%.

I'm really angry about this. No wonder people who can afford to send their children to private school.

Ooh, Ooh, I just realised how we can test some of this.
Give me a bit of time and I'll get the cohort numbers for KS2 .....
then we'll be able to see the flows.

BUT I know that at DCs school over 400 of the kids cross the LEA boundary (£2.00 daily bus fare or a ten minute drive each way) and another 400 at the next school along. Southampton city council admit that nearly 1/4 of their kids are at secondary over the border .... and there is no secondary school in the whole of central Southampton.
And we're in a "rich" part of the country !!!

You see to have decided what the problem is before you have actually looked at it though thebestisyettocome.

You have not considered that the problem might be more innate, within the family, lack of support network, lack of role models, not wanting to move away etc etc.

You also dont know how many actually applied. On average there are 8 applications per place to RG universities.

Ok Vagaceratops. Let's blame the parents then...

What a shame your teacher could spot your potential but not help you see how to develop it thebest. I was lucky that an LEA subject advisor who'd been to Cambridge herself was able and willing to guide me.

But I can't resist picking up your gauntlet - go on, refute 'old over-simplication of a complex probelm argument'. Show me the evidence that it is in fact a simple problem with a simple solution.

Don't feel at all sorry for me campergirl. I've done pretty well for myself subsequently.
I think we could find a solution if firstly people removed their heads from their arses and admitted there is a problem.

I am not saying blame the parents, what I am saying is that there isnt just one answer to the problem. Its not as simple as you want to make it.

DS's non-selective comprehensive school sent 4 pupils to Oxbridge and 50 to RG universities last year from an Upper 6th of around 150 pupils. 128 pupils in total went to university. The school has a highly aspirational ethos and ALL the pupils see 6th form and university as a natural progression for the more academically able.

There's no denial on this thread that there's a problem! In fact a number of possible problems have been identified by various posters. I don't get your point.

If the problem is complex and involves more than one single issue do the doubters on here such as Vag and camper accept part of the problem at least is failing schools?

I went to a comprehensive school in Sefton. There used to be people who went to Oxbridge fairly regularly although a lot of this was due to one particular subject where the HoD went to Cambridge and always encouraged those who had a chance to go to try. He has retired now though.

I didn't go to a RG university although I think it might be one now? Was a 1994 group one anyway, as is/was Durham I think so the RG part isn't necessarily that vital. There used to be people who came to my school from Knowlsey in the 6th form as I think 6th form provision wasn't exactly all that good then and presumably isn't now.

I live in the neighbouring LEA to Halton (I think! - Cheshire), and the results at my local schools are very different to those being quoted above. The distance from Halton to Helsby High (a popular local school-but cannot see leavers destinations on website) is 7 miles - so may be some bus it to there? My closest school says for 2011, it had 2 going to Oxbridge, 30 to RG unis, plus some to Bath, Durham, Hull, and York. From a personal point of view I would prefer my DCs to go to a uni in the north or midlands - I also think they would fit in better there.

Right, found it. Knowlsey's biggest problem is that it is a teeny tiny LEA
Here is the KS2 underlying data for 2010/11
www.education.gov.uk/researchandstatistics/statistics/statistics-by-topic/performance/ks2and3/a00196847/interimresults
There were only 1697 children entered for KS 2 tests - which once you allow for a bit of private schools and boundary migration
makes the difference between 0 and 2 kids getting to Oxbridge within the standard deviation of statistics

I wonder what Merton's excuse is .....

How does that explain the 2% RG statistic though talkinpeace?

And even if it is a small LEA how can LapsedPacifist's school of 150 still send more children to Oxbridge than three entire boroughs

How many schools are there in Knowsley?

TalkiPeace2. My DP was on free school meals. He says there is no way on earth his parents could've afforded to do an eight mile round trip to school every day. I think that still probably applies to a lot of children with families on very low incomes. That being the case, why should these children have to travel out of their area to get decently educated and why do so many people on here seem to think that's perfectly acceptable ?

Thebest, Knowsley contains many deprived areas, but there are plenty of areas within it that are not deprived and it is more likely that children from aspirational families in these areas are choosing to travel in to Liverpool for their education even before 6th form. Then children at 5 of the 7 secondaries within Knowsley have to make a choice if they want to continue to A level. Their choice is one FE College within borough, otherwise they have to go somewhere else.

thebest
indeed, they should be looking at where those 25 children are
but
it may well be that the whole area is effectively a secondary modern to Liverpool's grammar - which rather hamstrings them...
I'd like to hear the head of the LEA justify it though - just for accountability sakes

I haven't denied it thebest - I merely said that your pointing of the finger only at schools and LEAs was over-simple. You are much more invested in making this a manichean conflict than I am.

Thanks for that Cecily. Its very easy to get frothy about a subject, but then if you dig a bit deeper you can find the reasons for the problem.

Liverpool doesn't have grammar schools, although the Wirral does (the five Merseyside boroughs are Liverpool, Sefton, the Wirral, Knowsley and St Helens).

I'd imagine that aspirations in Knowsley aren't high and that there is an element of vicious circle going on there.

Knowsley is not a wealthy place Cecily. Not every person living there will be poor but to portray it as not being plagued by povery is false. There was an article in the Guardian a few weeks ago which was arguing that instead of constantly looking at the economic crisis in Greece the press should be talking about the problems in, wait for it, Knowsley!

Cecily
FSM when your DP was at school may not have comprised such essentials as Sky TV, iphones and cars - it does now. They can - and do - afford the bus fare and the petrol. They are on the bus home with my kids.

And why do children travel out of area?
Simple
Because Bliar brought in "parental choice" and encouraged parents to let poorer schools fail.
If my local was not a sponsored Academy with a shiny new £14m building it would already have been closed due to falling rolls (1700 to 400)

Vag.
If there's any subject that's ok to get 'frothy' over I reckon education is it.

Talking of grammar schools, Liverpool's one remaining grammar school is perfectly accessible from parts of Knowsley.

If you are talking about Bluecoat Cecily it's just become an Academy.
It's always been well sought after by those lucky 120 children who pass the entrance exam.