Not one pupil in Knowsley went to Oxbridge last year and only 2% went to RG universities.

[thebestisyettocome]

In adjoining areas, Sefton and Halton, admission to Oxbridge was also 0%.

I'm really angry about this. No wonder people who can afford to send their children to private school.

Talkingpeace. I know the 1 Oxbridge is correct not sure about the RG stats from the school as there are a few with offers but many won't will meet them.

Where do I look it up, sorry if you have already linked.

I would say the problem in Knowsley is wider than worries about RG or Oxbridge. Only 41% of students in state schools went on to higher education, well below the national average of 52%.

So it looks like the more academic students are leaving Knowsley at 16 and doing a levels in Liverpool? Does that sound reasonable travel and aspiration wise? ( don't know the area at all).

'won't meet their offers' is what I meant to say.

Cecily, you have the answer then. Children that attend sixth form in a neighbouring LEA don't count towards the Knowsley statistics, so if a lot do go to out of area sixth forms we are not seeing the true figures here.

But there are very good universities that are not part of the RG. Why is it the be all and end all of everything?

tressy www.education.gov.uk/researchandstatistics/statistics/recentreleases/a00210491/destinations-ks-4-5-pupils

Vaga
because the RG are the strong research Unis that are competing at a world level which is what the UK needs to do - and I'd be interested to know which Unis you say are excellent that are not already in or about to join ...

Interesting. One of my Oxbridge-educated friends is from what is now Sefton, though a good few years ago.

And he did indeed go to school out of area - with a scholarship or assisted place at a Liverpool public school. Which was just as well, because it simply wouldn't have occurred to his working class parents that Oxbridge was a possibility.

In his case it was the push factor of an utterly crap local secondary which caused his parents to move him at 13, rather than the pull factor of private education. If the local school had been mediocre rather than dire, and he hadn't been physically bullied so often, his parents might never have moved him. And though very brilliant he's not a self-starter, so would never have applied to Oxbridge off his own bat.

TalkinPeace2
There are several private schools in Sefton (Merchant Taylors, St. Mary's College) and others adjacent to Knowsley which were private but are now academies or in the process of becoming academies (St. Edwards, Liverpool College).
As far as I know all of these schools have an excellent record of Oxbridge and RG University intake.

I can see why young people in Merseyside wouldn't go to Oxbridge or RG universities. The major vocations e.g. teaching, nursing, construction, business management are (or at least, were) better covered by other local universities.

I imagine young people now have to consider a degree as a means to an end. It's all very well going to Liverpool or Manchester to study a pure subject - if you get in, but doing a sandwich course at John Moores or Manchester Met which puts you a year further down the line to being a Chartered something is probably a better idea these days.

Vagaceratops.

RG universities may not in your opinion be the be all and end all, but is that an excuse/reason for poor children to be excluded from entering them?

I looked at our local comp's statistics. 1 per cent to Oxbridge, 6 per cent to Russell Group and 32 per cent to University. Is this good or bad?

Abzs. I think your post is very, very offensive and patronising.

Er, Abzs, and Merseyside would be different from the rest of the country in that...?

gelatinous. Not all children from the Knowsley LEA travel out of the area to do their A levels. You may think they can be written off on this basis but I think the facts speak for themselves and these children deserve a lot more than they are being given

bonnie
For a comp that is pretty darned good
nationally its 0.79% - 9% - 33%
implies they are getting the best out of their kids

thebest
private schools are only available to around 8% of the population - and any country which relies on parental wealth for academic excellence is doomed

Leicester
St Andrews
Lancaster
Bath

TalkinPeace2. I know the statistics for private education thanks very much and I think the children of Knowsley are pretty much doomed already, thanks to the LEA.

So it looks like the more academic students are leaving Knowsley at 16 and doing a levels in Liverpool? Does that sound reasonable travel and aspiration wise? ( don't know the area at all).

More than reasonable. No different to living in one London borough and going to school in a neighbouring borough.

I'm not sure what your point is Vagaceratops. I don't disagree that your 'list' includes good universities but why is it ok for poor kids to not go to RG universities?

I am not saying its okay, I am just saying that RG isnt the only option for children.

thebest
do you think that making the schools academies will have any effect at all on the guided aspirations of bright children (and I just do not believe that there are NONE) - bear in mind that the results of neighbouring LEAs are not distorted upwards ....

I do know the area (worked in education there about a million years ago, in fact) and agree with the explanation that the more able and ambitious students will be heading in to Liverpool (a very easy commute) for VI form studies.

But I also agree with prh47bridge that there is a much larger problem in the urban fringe communities around Merseyside of low educational achievement and aspiration, and many factors contribute to that. It's simplistic to blame the teachers, who are working with a socially and financially-excluded population with a long-term sense of disconnection from the world of work and education. It's not the only part of the country where that's so of course - it's a common issue in the ex-industrial areas that were ravaged in the 80s.

thebest, I'm not writing anyone off. But from the figures given I can't tell what percentage of children from Knowlsey go on to RG universities. It might be higher than the national average for all I know (from what people are saying, this is unlikely granted).

I also think that we have to think about debt too.

Many, many people are put off by the massive debt they will leave with. The fact you wont have to pay it back until you are over the earning threshold is a red herring. People can only see the pound signs.

I grew up in a deprived area. No-one I know went to a RG. I live now in a mixed area. I have friends who will readily admit they might discourage their children from university, and to get a 'trade' instead. Its a sad attitude but I dont think its isolated.