Who do I contact regard Home Educated child to raise concerns?

[Bemumsed]

Hi,

Have umm and aaah over this for ages, but am really concerned about some children known to us who are being home educated.

They are simular ages to our children, yet do not appear to be making any progress educationally. I know one of the children who is similar age to my eldest child cannot read. Parents say it is because she is dyslexic, but I find that hard to believe as have people in my family/friends who are extremely dyslexic but they were able to read at this age, even if it was with some difficulties. Parent have done nothing to tackle the problem, citing lack of money to get child properly assessed.

Also parents don't appear to spend much time if any working with their children on their education.

Parents won't talk about it. I'm just very concerned for children in the family that their educational and social needs are not being met.

I know that legally parents are entitled to home educate, but is there any way that the education of these children can be looked into? I can't find any info on local council website that explain who I can contact even if they turn round and say there is nothing they can do about it. Would like to know that at least I've tried.

Well, thank you for the thank you, arliasnext, but honestly, I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary. I cannot think of any of the local schools where functional illiteracy would be an everyday issue.

So I'm genuinely shocked by duchesse's 21% figure! I have absolutely no idea where it's coming from, although I note from the link that 'functional literacy' is a moveable mark depending on the society an individual lives in.

It's a fascinating thread. As someone who has been buried in a book since the age of 6, I simply can't imagine not reading until my teens & then suddenly deciding to give it a go. My childhood without books? Brrrrr. Horrifying thought! But it obviously works for some.

Oh, believe me, it was a horrifying thought for me, too. Most children climbed trees and dirtied their knees, I read, and read, and for good measure, I read a little more

It's definitely took a bit of a change in perspective for me to relax my opinion on the matter.

I read through the Wikipedia link and came back with this:

"The UK government's Department for Education reported in 2006 that 47% of school children left school at age 16 without having achieved a basic level in functional mathematics, and 42% fail to achieve a basic level of functional English. Every year, 100,000 pupils leave school functionally illiterate in the UK."

However, that's a little dated, so I searched a bit more and found an article from 2010. this is an excerpt from Functionally Illiterate and Innumerate, TES

"Government-funded research claims 20% of 16- to 19-year-olds lack basic skills

Around a fifth of pupils leave school functionally illiterate and functionally innumerate, despite average achievement in the three Rs improving over the past decade, a new Government-funded study has found.

Sheffield University researchers synthesised more than 60 years of evidence on numeracy and literacy and concluded that standards have generally risen in England, with the highest skills among the best in the world.

But they also found a significant proportion of young people still lacked the basic skills needed to function in society..."

That's quite a frightening statistic...

Not reading independently wouldn't necessarily mean a childhood without books though raven

We didn't do any teaching or deliberate work on reading with dd - but there were books being read to her, audio books, books with CDs to read along with, picture books, books to look at.

She doesn't have any SEN and went from not being interested in reading much more than names, signs and labels for herself when she was coming up to 6, to being a pretty fluent reader just a few months later. It would certainly have looked to people outside the family like I wasn't doing much at all with her because she wouldn't be interested in looking at books if there was anything else available to do or play. At that point she just wasn't all that into them. That was totally different to me as a child, but I didn't want to push her to learn to read based on what I enjoyed when she was really engaged with learning other things that she wanted to know right then. Not being in school there wasn't any need for her to read according to someone else's timescale - though it was important to me that I created an environment where she could see other people using and enjoying books so she would see that reading had value to us.

I wouldn't be worried about the children under 8 not reading based only on the fact that they aren't reading or being formally taught. It seems to be very common for families to move further towards being autonomous education as they spend longer home educating or if it suits some of the children more than others in the family.

ariusnext

Yeah, I really wouldn't advise that, either. If you have a concern with a parent's ability to care for their child, you should contact the parent, not social services.

what! Are you serious! So if you see your neighbour beating their child you should pop round for a chat about it rather then call ss? They'll tell you to fuck off and carry on doing it!

Are the rates of literacy quoted all those who leave school or does it include those who have entered the country post- school?

I started reading at the age of two and basically had my head in a book throughout the whole of my childhood. My brother was offered the same opportunities to learn by my mother, but wasn't interested. He started reading at around aged five (at school), but didn't really read for pleasure until he was around twelve (I think.) He is now an avid reader and writes for a living. Children are all individuals and the wonderful thing about home education is that we can allow them to develop at their own pace - the end result is the same. My eight year old reads all the time, but needs a little encouragement to write, whereas my six year old loves to write, but doesn't choose to read quite so much (although joke books and funny poems keep him happy!) My four year old wants stories all the time, and is beginning to see the advantages of learning to read for those occasions when there isn't an adult (or big brother) available to read to her, so I'm sure it won't take her long now the motivation is there. And my two year old wants to do everything the others do so I assume he will teach himself when he's ready! Of course I will help them to learn, but I know that the really exciting moments of progress come when the child is determined to learn something because he or she really wants to. So having a houseful of books and modelling reading for pleasure really works far better than imposing literacy lessons according to a strict timetable.

PooPooInMyToes

Sigh, am I to take it that you're going to take everything I say quite so literally? I think, in that instance, I'd probably be more inclined to call the social services. What I mean to say is that if one happens to have a friend who is struggling to care for their child, it might be more appropriate to help them wherever possible, instead of running to SS.

Roseformeplease

I'm just battling a grumpy toddler, but when she's asleep I shall have a look for the original report and find out what percentage (if any) might include foreign nationals entering the country without being educated here.

arlias, believe me, as a secondary school teacher who worked in schools in fairly leafy suburban towns I can well believe it. I'm sorry to contradict you here Raven but a great number were very much below expected literacy levels for their ages. I guess your school must be a fairly exceptional one? Interestingly I found my old class lists the other when I tidying up- each 120 strong year group had about 5 children with reading ages well above what you'd expect, a few about a year above, a significant number with a reading age less than a year below their chronological age, but about 15-20% (depending on year group) at least 2 years below their chronological age (ie RA of 9 or less at 11-12, RA of 10 at 13). I had about 6-7 in year 7 whose RA was around 7y 6m.

Just had a quick flick through but it would appear that the data was collated specifically from examinations and school records.

'Not reading independently wouldn't necessarily mean a childhood without books though raven'

No, I get that.

It's just that reading independently was my single greatest source of...well, everything, really. In fact, I used to regularly truant school in order to read.

I cannot imagine a world without it. I can remember the exact night I 'learnt' to read independently. It was this sort of time of year, so I'd been put to bed & it was still light enough to read, I would have been 5, & I was reading a battered old copy of 'Five Go Away In a Caravan' which I'd inherited from my own mother. It's one of my earliest, strongest memories - devouring that book, amazed at what I could suddenly do & how brilliant it was!

I've recently seen my own kids do the same thing - it does suddenly 'click'. My older two were both that sort of age, my 4 year old is about to crack it .

I just don't get being without that until your teens. Although I daresay I'd've got more fresh air & exercise.

It's a very different perspective - not forcing reading on a reluctant 4 year old, I understand - dd1 literally went from refusing to read to becoming yet another reading obsessive in the family in a few days.

I'm still boggling a bit at not reading until one's teens. That's 10 years' good reading you could be doing, & I can't imagine being without it tbh.

I'm still boggling a bit at not reading until one's teens. That's 10 years' good reading you could be doing, & I can't imagine being without it tbh.

And I get that, completely. However, from my perspective, my mind boggles that schooled children go without a great many skills that HE kids get to experience very early on, assuming they have the interest, obviously.

For instance, my nine-year-old struggles terribly to read, but she could knit or crochet a garment quite happily if asked, or prepare raw fleece and then spin it to make yarn. I do wonder how many children possess such a primitive skill, but a valid one, no less.

She has a developing interest in plant recognition and I have every faith that, if the moment ever arose, she would be quite capable of feeding herself with what she can find in the woods if necessary. Most children her age would end up with a nasty stomach ache f they attempted the same!

I think the whole reading issue is largely subjective in terms of interest. You're either that kind of kid, or you aren't.

Yes, well, if mine ever want to learn to knit or crochet, they'll have to ask my mum.

We [anyone responsible for children in the UK] should do far more of that stuff, definitely. I spent an interesting lesson today explaining to my year 7s what the terms 'barley' 'rye' & 'reaper' meant - so much for the Lady of Shalott! Blooming townies, the lot of them.

But does it have to be either/or? If you're literate, you can follow a knitting pattern or look up suspicious fungi online.

If you can't read you are not independent and you have to rely on what the parent tells you. Rather like the early church- people couldn't read and had to take what the priest told them.
Reading is the key to everything- you can learn to knit or crochet yourself if you can read - and identify plants. Learning either from the parent or other adult is easier, but reading means that you are not totally reliant and you can also disagree with them- with evidence to back it up. You can read books that you find yourself and not ones approved by your parents.
Reading is power - the earlier you get it the better IMO.

Jodysmum Fri 29-Jun-12 18:41:51 msg:
We all know that everyone on MN would be detailing who to write & moan at, Governors, LEA, HT etc. Screeches about the feckless eejit parents & moving schools, etc. Along with screeches of "Don't Interfere!!" Real Life: Parents I know who found their DC severely behind in all subjects in y4-y5 were livid: how could so many people be involved in their DC education & not have kept the parents better informed? The parents were ignorant (young=lack of life experience), but they weren't defensive & close-minded to comments from others.

HE community is not unified; there are ardent rabid pro-HErs who think that autonomous HE is a pile of abdicating responsibility poo. I'm not interested in that debate & don't know if OP is, either. But if the mantra is that people HE in all kinds of styles, it follows that some of those styles may well be rubbish, just as much as it follows that some people will insist their style of HE is great no matter how rubbish the results.

Bemumsed I think I've decided that (probably) in your situation I would hold off. 8yo can't recognise own name etc.: sounds WEIRD & highly suspect, but not so bad I would move to as drastic an action as contacting other authorities. Maybe at 9yo, probably at 10, definitely at 11. Bit arbitrary I know, but I have specimen children at about those ages for reference on emotional & cognitive maturity.

So I'm genuinely shocked by duchesse's 21% figure! I have absolutely no idea where it's coming from,

ravenAK, it comes from the 1996 International Literacy Survey (IALS) conducted by the OECD. Respondents were interviewed in their homes, and took tests in 'Prose Literacy', 'Document Literacy' and Numeracy. The test items were divided into 5 levels of difficulty and, if respondents did not score 80% at a particular level, they were placed in the level below. The 21% were the people who did not score 80% at level 2 (which does not mean that they did not get some items correct at a higher level). To put in some sort of context, when the result were stratified by age, in the oldest cohort, then aged 56 - 65, 44% of respondents were at the lowest level of literacy.

In a more recent survey, based on the IALS, undertaken by the Scottish Government, which endeavored to get more meaningful information about the lowest group, they found that 3.8% respondents had literacy so low that they might reasonably be termed functionally illiterate.

I appreciate that HE gets bashed! I just don't think anyone's interests are served by reciprocal school bashing.

I agree.

AdventuresWithVoles

"specimen children"

Shudder

Raven

"But does it have to be either/or? If you're literate, you can follow a knitting pattern or look up suspicious fungi online."

It doesn't, no, but in my experience, a child will either want to read, or they won't. And I'm not in the business of making children miserable.

My six-year-old is quite a fluent reader, she loves to read. In fact, I plan on building her a little library in the garden (a shed-like construction) because that's her one wish: to have her own library.

My four-year-old loves letters and numbers, though we haven't done anything other than read to her at this stage. What I did notice is that my eldest just didn't enjoy being read to as much as the others. She finds the whole notion of books "boring" and "tiresome". And that's that, really. As fas as she's concerned, at this stage, it's not up for debate.

She understands that at some point, she'll have to read and write fluently, and as such, she reads graphic novels when she feels like it. I don't force it, at all.

My dcs have learnt all kinds of crafty things at school. They have school veg patches, do cooking, weaving,knitting. Last week they went to a farm and churned butter. They have been rock climbing, caving, just done a Paralympics, performance every year, metalwork, carpentry, you name it thy do it in the bog standard secondary school.

They have clubs, mentors, buddies, cross country running (city really), endless sports and games.

They don't teach them to forage for food as that's frankly like teaching them to play with poison.

I agree that reading is the key to all learning after around 7 years.

So, after all this thread what did the lady who started it off do?
Fedup2012............He-er's do all of the above and more as we can get out and about a lot more during the week if we so choose to. I don't drive and find it hard to get out and about as much as I would like and I also have health issues. As for reading my 13yr old (dyslexic) really struggles and always asks me to read it for him. I am not concerned at all as most PC's have a speech recognition tool so he can do his writing so to speak by talking into a headset. There are also gadgets that go over text to read it out which I am just looking into to get one. My 6yr old however has been independently reading for 2yrs now and is really catching up with my 13yr old in all aspects of education. I am not anti school I have had children go right through the system. If my kids want to go to school they can but they choose to learn at home.
So just because I HE does not make me anti school and pro HE so parents who choose the opposite should also have the same view but they don't most of the time.
This has been an interesting thread but I did feel HE-er's were bashed a little.
I truly hope that the people this is all about don't get SS on their case unless there is abuse going on. I also think that the lady wanting to report to whoever will lose their friendship.

she said further down the thread that she had decided to contact the education officer since "I care too much"

exoticfruits and others re: Independence

Just to repeat what I wrote way up thread:

My own father never learned to read properly. He served in the Army (national service), had a wife and family whom he supported with equal contributions of wages with my (grammar educated) Mum. He drove a car.
He was well liked by all who met him and could talk to anyone.

If he wasnt independant than no body is.

Im not saying it isnt important to read - of course it is - but people can and do learn in many other ways.

OP - if your only concern is that an 8 year old (possibly dyslexic) child cannot yet read then talk to parents about it again. I think there are younger children too (and an older diagnosed dyslexic you feel is doing quite well?) Do yhe younger ones read or show signs of it?

OP if there are other concerns (socialisation seems to be one) then again speak to parents about this and perhaps offer to help - take one or more child out for day to events, museums etc.

What do you want LA to do if you do speak to them? Make parents send the children to school? or make them educate DC 'properly' at home? How do you expect they will do this? If parents resist then it will be very stressfull for all concerned not least the children. Do they want to go to school?Please think very carefully about what you want to achieve before you talk to LA (or whoever).

Bottom line OP - do you believe these children would be happier if you involved outside agencies? If so involve them - but if you were sure you wouldnt have asked on MN would you?

Good Luck - whichever you choose wont be easy.

I rather got carried away on the reading issue-I just think that it is important to be able to read as soon as possible or you miss a lot.

As regards OP-only she can say-I think that you should always go with gut instinct (if you have one).

fedup2012

"My dcs have learnt all kinds of crafty things at school. They have school veg patches, do cooking, weaving,knitting. Last week they went to a farm and churned butter. They have been rock climbing, caving, just done a Paralympics, performance every year, metalwork, carpentry, you name it thy do it in the bog standard secondary school."

I'm not saying that they won't have a brief introduction to these subjects, but I sincerely doubt any child introduced to these in such a way will really be able to do those things independently. The class ratios make it impossible for that to happen because one-to-one learning simply doesn't take place during those activities.

"They don't teach them to forage for food as that's frankly like teaching them to play with poison."

Yes, I'm teaching my children to play with poison, 'cause that's just the kind of thing I like to do. Really? Urgh.

We've had a day out at Alnwick Castle today, which has a fascinating poison garden. I'm a bit leary of the whole food foraging thing after that, I must admit.

Why wouldn't fedup2012's dc have been able to do the things she describes 'independently'? What's so very desirable about one-to-one as opposed to group learning when you're digging a veg patch or doing carpentry?

The 'independence' comes in at the risk supervision level, ie: there's probably no harm in a child practising their weaving independently but you'd presumably want to keep an eye on them when caving. I don't see how that becomes different for a HE child.

Thanks CecilyP for clarification re: functional literacy. 3.8% seems much more realistic!