Who do I contact regard Home Educated child to raise concerns?

[Bemumsed]

Hi,

Have umm and aaah over this for ages, but am really concerned about some children known to us who are being home educated.

They are simular ages to our children, yet do not appear to be making any progress educationally. I know one of the children who is similar age to my eldest child cannot read. Parents say it is because she is dyslexic, but I find that hard to believe as have people in my family/friends who are extremely dyslexic but they were able to read at this age, even if it was with some difficulties. Parent have done nothing to tackle the problem, citing lack of money to get child properly assessed.

Also parents don't appear to spend much time if any working with their children on their education.

Parents won't talk about it. I'm just very concerned for children in the family that their educational and social needs are not being met.

I know that legally parents are entitled to home educate, but is there any way that the education of these children can be looked into? I can't find any info on local council website that explain who I can contact even if they turn round and say there is nothing they can do about it. Would like to know that at least I've tried.

Bemumsed, a similar situation arose with a family of children I knew who were HE'd. I'm reluctant to give too much detail as it would out me to anyone who was involved, but a number of adults (many of whom had HE children themselves and most of whom either lived with/spent a lot of time with the children) were concerned that the dc weren't receiving any meaningful education.

One woman who was close to their mother suggested a meeting with the dc and all the adults who had a close interest in their welfare to discuss ways in which the community could support their parents in providing more resources for them. It was a very painful situation, but I think that the woman who chose to 'interfere' did do the right thing, and various adults took on supportive roles with the DC who are now many years later flourishing and at college.

It really depends - there's a world of difference between someone 'butting in' who has no knowledge of/understanding of autonomous HE, and someone who has been there/done that and recognises a family that is struggling (in that instance mainly because of 1 parent's depression) & wants to support them in continuing with the educational route they'd chosen for their family.

There seems to be a lot of defensive answers that almost seem fearful. I wonder why.

takver it is interesting you say that as I was having just that conversation with my closest home educating friend.

Her view is that HEing parents are too quick to dismiss potential problems. Probably out of defensiveness for HEing generally. So understandable but not right.

But actually I think one of the problems is that those DC who are being let down by their parents don't regularly come across the HEong community's radar. The ones I've come across have more likely been left to their own devices for the majority of time, while parents work or take drugs or are cripled by mental health issues.

julian I don't believe for one second that your DC played shoot-em up games for weeks on end in their bedroom. For a start that would be a huge health issue, never mind an educational one.
I take your point that what you did didn't look like an education. But the point was that it was!!!

Absolutely 'butt in', OP. There's no harm in it at all. What's the worst thing that can happen?

The defensive answers on here are from the endlessly verbal HE lobby on mumsnet. They are ALWAYS right.

You really don't seem to know what you are talking about.

In your op you say that one of the children can?t read and the parents say it?s because she is dyslexic, then in another post you say that it?s the 15yr old who is dyslexic but it?s the 8 year old who can?t read.

In your op you day that you are worried that the family aren't getting the help they need with the dyslexic child then you go on to say that she has made great progress and ha benefited from HE.

You say you know the family extremely well but then say the oldest is about 15yrs old. Surely you would know the ages.of.the.children if you know the family extremely well?

TBH I would?t be phoning anyone until you can get your ow story straight.

And once again, sorry for typos.

Erm, I just assumed that the eldest one had lots of help from her parents with her dyslexia and the younger one who also has dyslexia according to the parents isn't get the same level of care.

Hardly difficult to work out.

I gathered that, Fedup

With the greatest of respect, people like you are the reason home-educators segregate themselves from society.

I would hazard a guess that the family you are so concerned about are either educating autonomously or are following an "unschooling" path. These methods are not only perfectly legals in the UK, they are also very viable approaches to a child's education.

It is a common factor of these methods that these children may not learn to read or write until their teens. We are predisposed to believe that a child absolutely must be proficient in their native language by a particular age. Why? Why is it necessary that they competently recite the works of Shakespeare by fifteen? What purpose does it serve?

I have a HE friend whose children were latecomers to the language arts, and yet, the skills those children possessed were far more valuable to them as individuals. They could sew, cook and bake, scavenge meals in the wild, identify poisonous plants, classify animals by their species, they showed a great talent for budgeting financially and developed their story-telling through play and imaging they created themselves. And that's a brief synopsis of their capabilities.

What you must first begin to understand is that reading, writing and mathematics are only indicative of a learned skill in a conventional school setting. I'd like to ask you, when was the last time you applied Pythagoras' Theorum to your daily life? Why, I ask, do you insist on written evidence to show that they are, indeed, learning? When you cook for your family, do you write out equations before you're able to continue with the task? No. You lear how to cook, and mathematics is a natural component of that learning curve.

Once you step out of the mindset that learning must be done at a desk with pen in hand, the possibilities for learning really are endless.

Let those children be, and don't risk spoiling a friendship simply because you have a different set of deals when it comes to the education of a child. Would you remove them from your life because of their dietary choices? No! So don't make the same mistake with their educational preferences.

And another one - "people like you". Right.

The day that right minded adults dpn't raise their genuine concern aboout a child they know, is the day society collapses.

Or maybe the op doesn't actually know what she is talking about.

So they did a more formal home ed for one child and have decided to be more autonomous for the younger ones.

Doesn't mean those children arent getting the same input from the parents or are learning any less than their older sibling.

endlessly verbal HE lobby that would be me presumably?

I am endlessly verbal about HE, because so many people have such mistaken beliefs about it, especially about autonomous/informal HE. I will endlessly go on whilst people post incorrect information.

I am endlessly verbal on mumsnet about HE, because it is a great place to get information about HE, to parents who may be desperate to know there is a different way, if their children don't fit well in school.
I don't criticise other people's choices on how they educate their children.
I sincerely believe that parents should know that home education is a legal viable options.....and that you don't have to give formal lessons/do anything that looks remotely like school. Parents can then make an informed choice about what is right for their family at that time.

and 'm endlessly vocal about home education, because I am so often on the receiving end of a phone call from a desperate parent whose child wants to kill themselves rather than face school for even one more day.
I was such a desperate parent once, and will be for ever grateful for those other endlessly vocal home ed parents who got that information out there, for me to find and save my children.

here is the government stuff...yes parents have the right to EHE, (home education). Yes there will be an EHE Co-Ordinator in each local authority. Yes s/he will visit families 'regularly'. Yes s/he can expect to be given access to the children and educative materials at each visit; the former from a Child Protection perspective and the latter from an Education monitoring perspective. S/he can also be invaluable in offering signposting and advice.

BUT
Yes, parents can refuse to meet with anyone and/or allow access to their children/resources.

HOWEVER
Concerned EHE Coordinators should alert Childrens Services if they suspect avoidance.
Childrens Services should then investigate whether children have been seen by other profs recently, eg GP, health visitor, dentist. If they have, C Services can liaise with them as to the children's welfare. If not they can alert police who can undertake a Child WelfaRE cHECK; call at the house and demand access and then let C Services know of any issues. This stops concern over another Victoria Climbie tragedy for example.

ALSO

As far as the actual education of the children there is no jurisdiction over it. Some EHE pupils do really well and their parents do it fulltime and put all their energies into it. Others don't.

FINALLY

If I were you, I would contact Education Welfare to have the monitoring checked out and keep on until you get a response.
However, if it's not a Welfare issue, (ie meets the threshold of Childrens Services intervention), there's not a lot more you can do except stay vigilant for any signs of ill treatment.

You are right to be concerned about any child but in terms of their education it sounds as though these parents have exercised their rights to EHE and then got tired of it.
If you know them well you could ask if they'd consider sending them back to LA Education of course.

Hope this clears up any legalities folks!

Not being funny with anyone but how dare you all make the assumption that SS need to be called. How would you like it if someone did it to you over something that was completely normal to yourself but not to others. To many HE-ers have to much interference cos of people like you. Why do you all think you have a god given right to question how we educate our children for those of us who choose this way. My husband is dyslexic and so is my now 25yr old who I had to fight the system for to get him the education I thought he deserved. When my now 13 yr old showed the same signs I removed him from mainstream school to HE. 4yrs later nd its the best thing I did for him. I also HE my now 8yr old who has never been to school. Luckily I knew what to ask for with what proffs to get assessments. My son has a statement of special needs waiting in case he wants to return to school. Us HE-ers know what we are doing and yes alot of us do prefer the child led approach or even radical unschooling. We decide the best way for our children just as you have decided to let someone else educate your children. Your choice to send to school and hand over the reins so to speak, our choice is to be personally responsible for our childs education. And just to add my 25yr old went to a dyslexic school in Lichfield but still can't read and write to a noticable standard. Please think before you start meddling, you may lose your friendship. You also said that they have only had 2 visits in 12yrs so if she has been HE-ing for 12yrs I would think she knows what she is doing so leave alone she won't thank you. Glad I don't have friends like you all.

And all that is very worthyjulian...but it doesn't mean that HE can never go wrong.

When it does one would hope that all supporters of HE would have the courage to say so.

There comes a point where being hugely supportive of somehtig slips into blind defence mechanism. Not good.

"Yes s/he will visit families 'regularly'. Yes s/he can expect to be given access to the children and educative materials at each visit; the former from a Child"

Where on earth did you hear that rubbish? That's totally inaccurate.

BUT
Yes, parents can refuse to meet with anyone and/or allow access to their children/resources.

"Concerned EHE Coordinators should alert Childrens Services if they suspect avoidance."

No, they shouldn't. EHE is not within SS remit.

"Childrens Services should then investigate whether children have been seen by other profs recently, eg GP, health visitor, dentist. If they have, C Services can liaise with them as to the children's welfare. If not they can alert police who can undertake a Child WelfaRE cHECK; call at the house and demand access and then let C Services know of any issues. This stops concern over another Victoria Climbie tragedy for example."

Well, yes, assuming SS have any purpose being there, which they don't.

sue8 that's a very long paragraph. Glad I don't have friend like you all

The feeling is mutual.

OP - presumably you have spoken to the parents about your concerns?..especially considering the fact you know the family "extremely well" ?

"Yes s/he will visit families 'regularly'."

No, S/he may ask to do a home visit. The choice on how to give information about the educational provision, is always the parents.
I chose not to have them anywhere near my kids-and so do very many of the families that I know-especially the autonomous ones, as LA bods often know so little about autonomous education, or simply don't approve.

"Yes s/he can expect to be given access to the children and educative materials at each visit; the former from a Child Protection perspective and the latter from an Education monitoring perspective"

S/he can expect till hell freezes over, s/he never got access to my kids-they didn't want to meet anyone from the LA ever again, so I listened to and respected their wishes.
And they couldn't have seen any formal work as their wasn't any to show-and any educational materials were the children's intellectual property and theirs to share-or not, as they chose. My children chose not to share with the LA, in all the time they were HE.

And education should never be conflated with welfare.
Just because you are home educating doesn't mean there is an automatic welfare issue.
it's just because LA bods come mistakenly from a 'Child Protection perspective' that many HE families don't trust them anywhere near their kids!

The LA can ask, they shouldn't 'expect' anything. There is no expectation in law that home education should be monitored on a routing basis.

Here is what Graham Stuart MP, Chair of the Education Select Commitee in Parliament has to say on the subject

"?LA Officers will take the lead on this because they have the responsibility to ensure the safety of all children as well as to monitor the quality of education received by children educated at home.?

That is a nice one, neatly conflating the issues of safety and home education. No one has yet arrived at my house during the summer holidays just to check up on the safety of my children, who are, after all, spending months at home with me. Who knows what my wife and I might get up to, or what the younger or older sister might do? Who knows what visiting relatives might do? What we need are visitors from the local authority, just to make sure. I do not want people such as the director of children?s services in my local authority to lose a moment?s sleep because they feel that they are not pursuing every possibility of intervention to cover their own backsides and telling me how I should run things in my own home. That is precisely what the local authority suggests should be done in the case of home-educating parents, who deserve its intervention no more than the rest of us. The document continues:

?Thus, when a practitioner or professional becomes aware that a child is being educated at home, they should use local information sharing arrangements to help the Lancashire Authority to fulfil both its duty to be confident??

so it has a duty to be confident now?

?of the well-being of the child and its duty to assure the quality of the education provided.?

That, too, is not true.

As far as I can tell from one evening spent looking at their websites, council after council is entirely misrepresenting the legal position, and I hope that the Minister will put that right."

Wow that's a lot of words julie

Do try to remember that access to education is a human right and that OP is concerned about a child's access to education, not access to school. She's going to talk to the Education Welfare officer, not Social Services.

What exactly gives you the right to judge that the educational and social provision is inadequate? Nothing whatsoever gives you that right. As a society we take abuse of children seriously and that is as it should be but nothing you describe even touches on an abusive situation.

The law requires that a parent causes their child to receive an education. If you feel that sending your child to school and using state provided services will achieve that then that is your choice. It is far from right for many children and many parents recognise that fact and home educate.

Home educating parents regularly get busy bodies trying to tell them that their methods or approaches are wrong. I know, I've been told that many times in the last 26 years whilst home educating.

Many home educators also start off with a very formal approach to education which then becomes much less formal with children effectively guiding their own learning. That is their choice and the business of nobody else but themselves and their children.

As an aside, my nephew in his 30s has dyslexia and is barely able to read. He is a graduate having achieved that using technology to assist him. 10%+ of children leave school unable to read and write.

Many children do not like what you may view as a suitable social life and that is their choice, not yours.

Local authorities do not have the legal right to 'inspect' home education provision other than where there is cause for concern. The fact of home education is not cause for concern. That is exactly as it should be. If parents choose to provide what to their view is a better and more suitable education for their children, why on earth should they be inspected by Local authorities who do not usually understand the home education law (I'm a lawyer, trust me they don't) and who are generally entrenched in the view that only a narrow state decreed curriculum is right for every child regardless of their ability. It isn't.

If I counted the number of times well meaning people had said to me 'but what about socialisation' and I had but £1 for each time, I'd be formidably well off.

Yes, these children may not be receiving an education of which you approve. It is not your business to approve or otherwise.

wordfactory: Yes sometimes HE can go wrong but not in the way most think. A parent who HE's knows if her child is struggling or even if gifted and talented. Most know how to access what they need to help and most use FB even, for support.
Home educators are a tight knit community and are there for each other whenever and wherever not just to gossip at a school gate.
Most of us take pride in watching our children grow and flourish without the stress of performing in a classroom.
Why is it that some just love to get on there high horse when it comes to something they know nothing about is beyond me.
Fedup2012: why are you even replying to this friend when you clearly don't want to listen to us HE-er's. The thread is about HE.

Clearly the OP is an expert on HE.