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Any advice on the most effective way to deal with a bad teacher

209 replies

threesenough · 20/05/2012 07:36

I need advice. My dd's teacher is failing her whole class. I think she has been a good teacher in the past but I - and other parents I have spoken to - feel that she has been in her job too long and has become jaded and can't be bothered.
In every other year at school my dds has enthused about her teachers and in turn teachers have told me how much she loves learning. This year she has become disengaged, bored, despondent. It can only be down to a poor teacher. Next year we are faced with another notoriously poor teacher. In that case I know of mums who petitioned to have her removed or at least shifted to teach a different year that was less crucial to children's educational development (! Not sure which year that could be!!!). Nothing was done.
I feel really powerless to counteract the adverse effects that the combination of two lazy teachers can have on so many children in Y4 and Y5. Other parents who have already been through this stage at our school refer to this as 'the lost years' or 'the wilderness years'.
What is the most effective way to address this issue?Can anyone advise?

OP posts:
Feenie · 21/05/2012 18:04

My dd's teacher is failing her whole class. I think she has been a good teacher in the past but I - and other parents I have spoken to - feel that she has been in her job too long and has become jaded and can't be bothered.

Yes, that's gossip alright. And deeply unpleasant conjecture.

Why does it sound like that, amillionyears? Confused The OP has offered not one jot of evidence or new information.

clam · 21/05/2012 18:25

I agree, feenie. You have no idea what's going on for this teacher in her personal life.
"been in her job too long and become jaded" Subjective guesswork. And unpleasant at that. Angry

threesenough · 21/05/2012 18:36

I admit it my original post wasnt well worded. I had been up since 5am turning things over in my mind before it dawned on me to ask advice on here. amillionyears summarised the situation well. Thanks.

I don't like gossiping about teachers. I am in awe of them most of the time. The class in question is in Y4. So feedback from their teachers in reception, Y1, Y2, Y3 was that as a whole they were great, generally bright and well behaved and generally a pleasure to teach.

After 1 term in Y4, the teacher says they are a difficult class. The teacher has been teaching Y4 for more than three years. At parents' evening she told me that my dd was sticking at the same grade as last term in literacy. And in the next breath told me that in fairness to my child, she hasn't taught her those things and that they are difficult topics to teach. Right. I let it pass and decided I would try to teach my child those topics and figured it would come in time.

Then, last week my dd told me that she doesn't like maths any more because now that her group knows all the times tables really well, they are left on their own to do really boring sums.

I know that loads of kids dislike maths - including my ds. But my dd loves maths. Always has. And suddenly she is telling me she doesn't enjoy it any more.

And then another mum asks me how dd is at school and suddenly she has had similar comments from her previously cheerful and enthused child.

Then another Mum mentions that she felt embarrassed on a school trip at how unruly the class were and that the teacher in question had rolled her eyes and said 'Some days, I just can't be bothered.'

Ok. we all have days when we can't be bothered and in many other jobs the immediate effects would not be so apparent.

But if there are lots of days when you can't be bothered and the job in question directly affects the welfare and education of children, I think parents have a right to start asking questions about what can be done.

OP posts:
threesenough · 21/05/2012 18:43

CupofBrownJoy - yeah sorry for taking so long to get back. I can't go on Mumsnet at work.

OP posts:
youarekidding · 21/05/2012 18:45

Teachers are observed regulary. If they fail observations they can be asked to leave.

IME HT don't want poor teachers in their schools becuase of the accountability they have for progress made.

Your DD is year 4? and I guess her friends are parents of 8/9 yo girls too? Ever wondered if the attitude shift is as likely hormones as it is the teacher?

Yes there are varying different teachers - but just because one is very enthusiastic and amazing they won't all be. It's like life most supermarket cashiers, bank tellers, bus drivers, doctors etc are good at their jobs. Occasionally you are luckily enough to meet an exceptional one - it's natural to wish they were all like that but that's not how life is.

threesenough · 21/05/2012 18:53

just trying to catch up on all the comments ? interesting how much conjecture there has been made about me based on less information than I gave about the teachers! Wink

OP posts:
threesenough · 21/05/2012 19:26

feenie - thanks for your input. I appreciate that I won't be able to base a complaint about a teacher based on what I have told you here. It's a social networking site so I didn't want to build a legal case or anything.

I don't mean to imply that all senior teachers who stay in their jobs a long time become jaded. If they do, then there is something wrong with a system that allows good experience to go to waste. Teachers deserve to be inspired by their work as much as the children they teach.

I didn't like the sound of a petition either, which is why I came on here. I have certainly learned a lot from the experience. First time I've ever posted anything. Will take all the balanced advice you are giving.

OP posts:
amillionyears · 21/05/2012 19:58

I was thinking you may have been a first time poster.I hope this experience wont put you off.I have been on lots of different topics, but the first time on an education one.FWIW, I have been surprised by the posts on here.They seemed quite het up by your post.Dont know if some of the posters are regulars to the education topic or not.
You did get some good advice too I think.

GnomeDePlume · 21/05/2012 19:59

I think you have every reason to ask questions of the school. IMO start with questions but dont go in with your own conclusions to the fore.

Something to keep in mind about the comments here is that a lot of people are very sensitive about criticism of teachers. Just because some posters on here have jumped on you a bit does not mean you shouldnt have legitimate concerns.

clam · 21/05/2012 20:14

Yes, regulars. Feenie and mrz in particular.

clam · 21/05/2012 20:15

Both of whom are very experienced in the field, and also measured in their responses.

mrz · 21/05/2012 20:23

amillionyears is not going to engage with me clam Grin

clam · 21/05/2012 20:34

Yes, I clocked that yesterday!

clam · 21/05/2012 20:38

Your posts were unreasonable, I seem to recall.

Feenie · 21/05/2012 20:40

That's definitely sounds like our mrz Grin

TheFallenMadonna · 21/05/2012 20:44

OK, based on your more recent post, you should make an appointment to see the Head. Explain your concerns. The Head will, I strongly suspect, cast an eye over what is going on in the classroom and over the teacher's planning given what you have said. Or if appropriate, pass it on the the teacher's line manager if that is not the Head. That is what I have done as a line manager in similar situations.

mrz · 21/05/2012 21:21

I failed to provide a definition of gossip [hangs head in shame]

Feenie · 21/05/2012 21:23

Actually, amillionyears asked you what your definition was - which you gave!

mrz · 21/05/2012 21:38

mutters to self ...not good enough must do better

amillionyears · 21/05/2012 21:59

I see we have a quiche of 3

mrz · 22/05/2012 06:48

Rather a quiche than a fruit tart Wink

flapperghasted · 22/05/2012 09:06

'teachers are observed regulalry' . Yes they are. And generally, they know when they are going to be observed and prepare accordingly. I know that's fair enough...in any field you'd want to be prepared if someone was going to watch you work. But an observed session isn't always going to be reflective of the actual lessons that take place.

During a recent Ofsted inspection, for example, a teacher who usually drones on at the front of the class whilst the kids run riot in the background had all kinds of interactive things for the kids to do during a maths session. The kids were better behaved than usual because there was a stranger in the room who was watching them work (they feel as if they are being judged too in these circumstances). They were also more engaged because the session was interesting.

This teacher didn't have a 'Euerka' moment and realise that this was all she needed to do to engage her class and improve behavioural issues. She didn't suddenly start doing all her lessons with that degree of interaction. She simply breathed a sigh of relief that it was all over and returned to her usual, uninspiring sessions where she talks for the majority of the lesson and then realises she hasn't got enough time to complete the lesson objective.

I know there are good teachers out there in the field. I know the job is not an easy one. But there are teachers out there who can turn on the performance for an observed session and let the class down for the rest of the year. Internal inspections are equally prone to manipulation (not the right word, but it's early, I'm full of cold and I can't think of the right phrase).

So how does the school notice a teacher isn't performing if not from the observations? If the levels aren't improving they can blame hormones from Y4, increasing levels of special educational needs within the cohort, any one of a number of reasons without it being due to the teacher or teaching. And if they do spot a problem with a teacher who's been there for years, is unionised and is due for retirement, would they really 'get rid of' them? And if you were that teacher and had done 40 years on the coalface, would you want them to get rid of you because you weren't the enthusiastic young go-getter you once were? It's a tough one.

cory · 22/05/2012 09:12

threesenough, I'm sorry you've had a rough time, but I think you have to admit it was very much about the wording of your first post: you seemed to be jumping to the conclusion that if your child had suddenly gone off school then it must be the teacher's fault (instead of a new stage in your child's development)

to me it sounded a little like saying "I was much healthier under my old GP, this new one can't be any good", ignoring any other reasons for a change

now you have provided a little more information which is helpful

(though it would be even more useful if you could make it clear why the sums are really boring- is it because they are the same type of sums your dd has done before? is she learning nothing new?)

basically, I think the best advice is the one that has been given repeatedly over this thread: be very, very specific to the teacher; if you are not sure from what your dd tells you, ask to be filled in about the work they are doing

orangeandlemons · 22/05/2012 09:16

No the teacher didn't have an 'Eureka' moment. She probably stayed up all night preparing the lesson Angry Angry.

And that is the rub. We could all deliver outstanding lessons if we had time to prepapre them properly. Angry

It takes a good 3 hours to prepapre a fanatastic lesson at least ime. If you are teaching 5 days a week [say 23 lessons], that would take the workload to 70 hours a week, plus marking admin, and all the rest of the crap. Some lessons have to be less that outstanding as it would kill the entire teaching force to work like that all the time

amillionyears · 22/05/2012 09:20

I would like to ask a genuine question.Are most teachers now feeling a lot of strain.Is the system slowly breaking down?