Any advice on the most effective way to deal with a bad teacher

[threesenough]

I need advice. My dd's teacher is failing her whole class. I think she has been a good teacher in the past but I - and other parents I have spoken to - feel that she has been in her job too long and has become jaded and can't be bothered.
In every other year at school my dds has enthused about her teachers and in turn teachers have told me how much she loves learning. This year she has become disengaged, bored, despondent. It can only be down to a poor teacher. Next year we are faced with another notoriously poor teacher. In that case I know of mums who petitioned to have her removed or at least shifted to teach a different year that was less crucial to children's educational development (! Not sure which year that could be!!!). Nothing was done.
I feel really powerless to counteract the adverse effects that the combination of two lazy teachers can have on so many children in Y4 and Y5. Other parents who have already been through this stage at our school refer to this as 'the lost years' or 'the wilderness years'.
What is the most effective way to address this issue?Can anyone advise?

I think NotSureICanCarryOn makes some very good points. I know that at my DCs primary school many of the parents had attended the school themselves and felt themselves to be overawed by the atmosphere. The fact that many of the parents were young themselves I think contributed to this.

As older parents from out of the area DH & I felt far more comfortable raising issues as they came up and not waiting for things to get out of hand.

mrz, no i dont think what she is doing is gossiping.How can talking about what she percieves to be the truth, with a group of people, be called gossiping.That is not my understanding of gossiping, nor it seems the dictionary definition.

And teacherwith2kids advice about how she handled it, is good too. I'd be able to respond better to that approach ... Gives me more to go on...(primary HT)

mrz,the op is getting opinions from MN before she decides whether or not to approach the school.Cant say I blame her for that.To many many parents school is a very scary place.They may well have bad memories of it themselves.Now you are telling her off for talking about it on here.

sunscorch, I am going to leave the issue of detachment as I dont think you meant it to sound as it came across.
sunscorch, if parents were privy to performance management of a particular teacher,of course it would help.they would know if they were correct about their assumptions of that teacher.Assuming that the performance management was accurate.

Yes teacherwith2kids has very good advice.

I would also add to actually make the first complain to the HT in writing and keep notes of the meeting (as you would in a professional meeting).

threesenough, in your case, I would actually get a feel if some parents have complained before and if they got anywhere with it. If they haven't had any results, I would actually consider changing school.
This would really depend how bad said teaching is, how is your dd doing and how are the other schools around. You know what you are leaving behind but don't always know what you are going to get. But having 2 teachers in a row changing dramatically their ways of teaching isn't going to be easy.

"sunscorch, if parents were privy to performance management of a particular teacher,of course it would help.they would know if they were correct about their assumptions of that teacher.Assuming that the performance management was accurate."

Yes, well, as your name suggests, that's not going to happen in a million years and nor should it. I can think of no other profession where employees would be expected to have their performance and targets aired in public for untrained gossips people to pick over. Although you clearly have little idea as to what performance management entails - there is nothing in it that would be of any use to you in confirming your opinion of a teacher.

No the OP is asking people to make a judgement based on gossip amillionyears

the OP needs to raise genuine concerns with the head/governors/LEA not with MN

I don't agree. I actually think it is very wise to ask first what would be important to say, how to get on about it before going to see the HT.
And avoid a situation where the Op concerns would be dismissed because they haven't been forward the 'right way'.

Better than 'not gossiping on MN' but going to see the HT, doing things the wrong way and getting no where.

OP is perfectly entitled to talk with other parents if she is concerned. It is only by doing this that OP can find out if other parents are experiencing something similar. What the OP mustnt do is bring other people's problems into the discussion.

Not all teachers are good. This can impact the DCs experience of school. Waiting for a long-winded evaluation process to take place is very frustrating for parents when their DCs only get one go at each year.

If there is a problem then OP needs to raise it now.

Having said that, seeing how the thread has gone, I would be surprised to see the Op coming back.

sunscorch, I am going to leave the issue of detachment as I dont think you meant it to sound as it came across.

I'd rather not leave it. There's nothing misleading about saying that teachers should be emotionally detached from their pupils, because they objectively should.

they would know if they were correct about their assumptions of that teacher.

Good. Well done them. Back patting all around. Then what?

Assuming that the performance management was accurate.

Now what? Parents inspecting teachers in class?

NotSureICanCarryOn are you saying that if you had a genuine concern you would canvass strangers on an internet forum?

sunscorch, there are parent Governors still, are there not.That is what Governors used to do as part of their evaluations,watching teachers in class.amonst many other things.
dont agree with you re detachment,i am going to agree to differ.
if their assumptions were correct about the teacher, then they would know to carry on.I feel like I am taking you through points 1 to 10 so not going to carry on with that point either.

mrz, I can see that your posts aer unreasonable, one after the other, so I personally am not going to engage with your posts further

clam, I am beginning to think that you think all parents of pupils are gossips.

Not answering for NotSure but why not mrz?

It is an opportunity to discuss in an anonymous environment. As parents we often end up doubting ourselves. Going to the school to raise a concern may be very daunting for many parents. I think that there have been a number of points made in this thread which may well help the OP to sort out for herself what is unsubstantiated gossip and what may be genuine.

Not a bad use of a Sunday afternoon!

When I had a genuine concern, I did ask for advice 'a bunch of strangers' from MN on how to deal with it best.

I was told to go and see the HT, put things in writing and stick to facts.
I was also given an idea of what sort of improvements I could expect.
And from what I said, I was also told what was really unacceptable and what could actually be OK (even if I didn't think so) ie it helped me not to make a fool of myself.

This helped a lot as I had no idea what to do/how to get on about it (NB I am not british, didn't know the system at all and really needed some advice as to what was the normal way to raise an issue). But having a few more years under my belt, I actually realize now that a lot of (very british) parents have the exact same problem than me. They don't always know what are the right procedures. They don't always realize that their expectations might be unreal (we all want the best for our dcs but the best isn't always achievable in a classroom environment, nor does it mean it is the easiest for the dc).

I am very glad I did ask tbh.

sorry not unreal but unrealistic ...

And then of course, you should raise the concern with the HT etc...

That is what Governors used to do as part of their evaluations,watching teachers in class.amonst many other things.
Parent governors do not pass judgement on the capability of teachers. It's not part of their role.
They can be present in lessons, but not in any kind of assessment capacity.

if their assumptions were correct about the teacher, then they would know to carry on.

Carry on with what? Campaigning for interventions that are almost certainly already taking place?
Great job.

mrz Sun 20-May-12 17:38:38
"NotSureICanCarryOn are you saying that if you had a genuine concern you would canvass strangers on an internet forum?"

Why not? If I hadn't done that I wouldn't have been pointed in the right direction to find out about dd's legal rights re disability discrimination: the school weren't going to tell me that they were breaking the law, but the links provided by Mumsnet at the time made it very clear. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Having said that, I am still not convinced by this OP: she hasn't provided any specific instances and it doesn't look as if she is going to come back to do that.

Of course I don't think "all parents" are gossips. That would be a gross generalisation of millions of people.
I do however object to the sort of pack mentality that would have led to the parents in the OP's school handing in a petition, for God's sake, asking for a teacher's removal. How vile.

It was amazing how many parents came forward after I made a formal complaint against my son's teacher ... many of them were the same people who had been singing her praises a short time before.

I think this is a really difficult one. Like any other profession, there will be good and bad teachers. But have also observed teachers acquiring a reputation as bad teachers who are failing their classes, panicked that my children were getting them, and yet the children (mine and others) achieving results that demonstrated they can't have been that bad.

Would also not assume that your DD becoming become disengaged, bored, despondent can only be down to a poor teacher .... you're not doing your DD any favours if you don't even consider the possibility that it could be down to changes in your DD unrelated to the teacher.

As said, really hard as I would also be worried if I were you BUT as a parent of older children, have seen enough to know things aren't always as they seem. Personally, I would book an appointment with the head and talk through your concerns - but you need some specific examples to back up your claims, based on what YOU have seen/observed or YOUR DD has reported back - not unfounded, potentially slanderous playground gossip.

If you ignore 1 or 2 things that the op said in her original post, which I hope she doesnt mind me saying wasnot as well worded as it could have been, this is what she is saying.

The op and other parents have genuine concerns about 2 teachers.
They dont know how to address the issue in the best way.
They feel powerless.
They have come on MN for advise
Good for them.
I hope MN have been able to help them, and now they do not feel so powerless.

On average, parents are not as bright as teachers
Nor are they as good with words
That does not mean they should be ignored or branded gossips.