Any advice on the most effective way to deal with a bad teacher

[threesenough]

I need advice. My dd's teacher is failing her whole class. I think she has been a good teacher in the past but I - and other parents I have spoken to - feel that she has been in her job too long and has become jaded and can't be bothered.
In every other year at school my dds has enthused about her teachers and in turn teachers have told me how much she loves learning. This year she has become disengaged, bored, despondent. It can only be down to a poor teacher. Next year we are faced with another notoriously poor teacher. In that case I know of mums who petitioned to have her removed or at least shifted to teach a different year that was less crucial to children's educational development (! Not sure which year that could be!!!). Nothing was done.
I feel really powerless to counteract the adverse effects that the combination of two lazy teachers can have on so many children in Y4 and Y5. Other parents who have already been through this stage at our school refer to this as 'the lost years' or 'the wilderness years'.
What is the most effective way to address this issue?Can anyone advise?

amillionyears: "Are parents allowed to see the performance management of the teachers"

You seriously think that parents would be able to swan into the Head Teacher's office and demand to see such feedback? Or, while you're at it, perhaps you'd like to talk to their GP about their personal medical notes, to ensure they're fit to interact with your child?

I do not really know about performance management.
I used to be a school Governor many moons ago,cant remember there being performance management then.I maybe am mixing up what can be seen by school Governors , and what can be seen by parents.

I personally think the system is at fault.
The system should be more open.
The childs learning is at stake.
Parents should know more what is going on in schools[obviously not medical notes,you do talk a bit outrageous dont you.Dont see your need to do that}

I don't see what good public performance management would do.

The parents aren't going to be able to draw any conclusions that the management team can't. They're certainly not going to be able to implement any support or intervention.

Sunscorch, your post depends on assuming that, if it is the Governors on the management team,that the Governors are doing an adequate job.That would be for the op and other parents to decide.The op and other parents could, if they thought it deemed necessary, to stand for election to Governors when the new posts came up for election.

Stop listening to gossip and support your child instead.

See that is what I dont understand about this thread.What is your definition of gossip?

gossip

but I - and other parents I have spoken to - feel that she has been in her job too long and has become jaded and can't be bothered.

It can only be down to a poor teacher.

Next year we are faced with another notoriously poor teacher. In that case I know of mums who petitioned to have her removed or at least shifted to teach a different year that was less crucial to children's educational development

Other parents who have already been through this stage at our school refer to this as 'the lost years' or 'the wilderness years'.

Sunscorch, your post depends on assuming that, if it is the Governors on the management team,that the Governors are doing an adequate job.

And the Head and Deputy. And possibly phase leader or head of department.
Let's be honest, if you think a bunch of thirty emotionally invested parents can do a better job than the detached professionals that are employed to do it, then a weak teacher is the least of your problems.

Sorry, I meant "the least of the school's problems".
Not to imply that you personally had issues.

Sunscorch,there are some schools that parents do indeed have a problem with the "detached professionals".We dont know if that is the case here or not.btw I dont like the phrase "detached".Because if they are emotionally detached from the childs learning, that is not a good thing.
mrz what you gave me is not a dictionary definition of gossip.Perhaps my previous question was not clear.

Sunscorch,there are some schools that parents do indeed have a problem with the "detached professionals".

Being privy to performance management information isn't going to impact that situation at all, though, is it?
Please explain how you think it would help, because I don't see it.

Because if they are emotionally detached from the childs learning, that is not a good thing.

Of course it is.
If teachers allowed themselves to be fully emotionally involved with the lives of their students, I can guarantee that the majority of schools would simply cease to function. You almost certainly have no idea of some of the things teachers have to remain detached from on a daily basis.

I'm another who would second the approach of keeping it specific but I would also recommend keeping it personal ie limit any questions or concerns to your own child. Dont raise concerns which relate to other children.

Also, dont offer thoughts on what may lie behind any issues and dont offer opinions on what should be done about the teacher.

Specifics could include:

• DD is not receiving back marked work (give specific examples)
• DD is not able to get the teacher's attention
• DD is not being stretched by her work (give examples)

Dont mention things like:

• the classroom is chaotic
• the teacher shouts at other children
• lessons are boring

We had problems with a teacher at secondary school. By addressing specific issues DD was able to get what she needed and pass the exam.

It wasnt ideal. This was a poor teacher who really shouldnt have been teaching that group - she eventually broke down in a class and started ranting, swearing and shouting at students.

No amillionyears it isn't a dictionary definition (I assumed you were capable of finding that yourself) but it examples of gossip from the OP.

Gossip

1. Rumor or talk of a personal, sensational, or intimate nature.
2. A person who habitually spreads intimate or private rumors or facts.

1. Trivial, chatty talk or writing.

Being emotionally detached does not mean we don't care for our pupils. Of course we do even the naughty ones!

And performance management is an entirely private affair between the management team and the teacher concerned. We are not even meant to discuss our targets with friends and colleagues on the staff, even thought the targets are ususally fairly bland and dull. I cannot believe that anyone seriously thinks that this should be an open process.

tiggytape,that sounds like a sensible post.If parents have been doing some of that, that is unreasonable.
if the op is in the position of your next to last sentence,then hopefully she will do some of the suggestions written on here.
I do think that the words gossip and witch hunt used on here may not be at all relevant to the op.If things are indeed remiss,then action needs to take place.
I hope the op comes back soon, if not I hope she takes the approriate action, whatever that is.

mrz, id say she is doing 1. , but not 2. or 3.

Sunscorch, i am not up to date with School Governor procedures nowadays.
But I would have thought that it would help, yes.If Governors have concerns about the teaching of a particular teacher, they would need to see the performance management surely, and act accordingly, surely?Else what is the point of them.Are they just a bureaucratic exercise?
Sunscorch, you are now using the words "fully emotionally involved".you previously said "detached".You have gone from one end to the other.

so you agree she is gossiping

Well I really give the OP the benefit of the doubt.
It can be very difficult to evaluate your child progress during the year.
Eg we had one parent evening right at the start of the year and will have one in June. We have nothing as parent that we can look at to see exactly what they are doing in school and whether the children are progressing or not.
ie hard facts can be difficult to find.

However, as a parent, you can say if the child is getting disengaged or isn't enjoying school when they have done in the past.
It might not hard facts but these are facts as such.

My experience too is that parents might say that they don't think X teacher is no good but would not go and see the head. There are several reasons for that:

• they don't like confrontation.
• they still see the HT as 'the scary person'
• they have some younger children that will have said teacher and feel they need to 'play it safe'
• they might feel it will not change anything
• they feel it will not change anything for their child as it is the end of the year
• or that it will make the rest of the year harder for the child if they go and complain to the head.

My dcs have had a bad teacher. I did go and see the HT and in retrospect should also have gone to see the governors. The reality is that the only thing I could do was to leave the school.
A good friend of mine has a child there. Issues are still the same and still very much left unanswered.

Sorry meant to add:

This can be also an explanation why parents might be 'gossiping' on the playground about said teacher but have not taken the issue to the HT.
This doesn't mean that what they say is wrong and should not be taken into consideration.

I don't think anyone disagrees that there are bad teachers just that the OP needs to raise genuine concerns with the head/governors/LEA not with MN

But I would have thought that it would help, yes.

How? Be specific.
We're talking about parents, here, not governors.

Sunscorch, you are now using the words "fully emotionally involved".you previously said "detached".You have gone from one end to the other.

Yes, because I was talking about what would happen if teachers weren't detached.
Good lord.

A couple of points... It isn't actually that hard to use the capability procedure to remove a teacher but you have to do everything by the book from the very first conversation or you will be severely challenged by the unions and may be subject to a tribunal. Also Governors cannot be involved until the very last stage ... They have to remain untainted in case the teacher appeals against the HT.

Op if you want to tackle it, then gnomedeplume's advice is the best, above.