Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements

[tiffinboys]

Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.

Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.

Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).

This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.

It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.

We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.

This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.

Zoffyany...I know thats why i would not choose such a school for my daughter....I abhor the idea of tutoring for entrance exams....

BTW why is Ryan a pauper name?...

I do disagree with distance....I think a mechanism to weed out the over tutored kids would be better though...

I would love to see little Ryan playing with James...

If you want exclusive go to an expensive indie...but then again horror of horrors. Ryan may get in on a scholarship.... best to get it free and keep Ryan out..

In that we have DC at Tiffin / DC at oversubscribed local comp. (both academies, both rated Ofsted Outstanding across all parameters) - we are able to clearly see the differences between these schools; parental 'buy in' / community engagement / involvement at GC is outstanding, whereas at TS it is practically non-existent. [Not only do a good many of the boys struggle to make it to the school; neither are their parents particularly interested in raising the funds needed to further develop the school.]
GC are building their sixth form facility - now - as i type, whereas Tiffin has little or no funds for its ambitious LRC2 rotunda project. When the latter will come to fruition is a matter of some conjecture...
You cannot simply keep taking out of something - it is precisely this 'in it for what you can get' - check out the league tables position mentality that now threatens the very existence of the Tiffins schools, let alone their future success.
The Tiffin Girls School have been more proactive and taken the brave decision to introduce 2 stage testing (curriculum testing in English/Maths ought to be a mandatory requirement for admission to a grammar school), and designated post codes; Tiffin School - in order to survive & flourish - must now follow suit.

It may well be that Ryan is brighter than James. Ryan's parents may have little interest in education and are not prepared/ able to pay for tutoring. Maybe Ryan is bored in the comprehensive because he is not being stretched and really should be at Tiffins. There are a lot of bright poor children who under achieve across the country.

I feel that Tiffins needs to make sure that low income families can access Tiffins.

Tiffinboys, are you aware that Kingston children who live nearer to some out of borough outstanding state secondaries, eg. Hinchley Wood, get into those schools before children who live in the borough but at a greater distance due to the rural nature of the area, despite the fact that there is a severe shortage of local school places for the children in the rural area?

Are you aware that an attempt to alter this and make it fairer on children who live in Elmbridge borough (where the school is sited) was over-ruled recently?

Schooling in this country isn't fair. It isn't fair that some areas have grammars and others don't. It isn't fair that some grammars have catchments and others don't. It isn't fair that some years children who score 122 can get into Tiffin and the next year children who score 126 miss out.

Of course we all fight our own little corners, that's natural, but others who have a vested interest in holding their corner against change will of course fight back. Your argument is no more coherent than anyone else's. You want one set of criteria that suits you, others want a different one that suits them.

I agree with you Reallytired....

@apatchylass

1. I hope you read my earlier post. i had suggested that by Law only one set of criteria should be allowed for all grammars i.e. open selection or distance, so that all play by the same rule.

1. I don't know what the proposals ere relating to your school and the reasons for being over-ruled, so I can't comment on that.

@reallytired

If some method could be found for high ability children of low income groups who live locally, to be admitted in Tiffins, that would be great.

But as know, what it entails. It is not the job of Tiffin or any other grammar to search for such children. They simply don't have the means to do it. Let Councils/LA take the lead and offer facilities to fsm children to prepare for the entrance tests, if that what you want. It is primarily the initiative of parents to take efforts in this respect. Those who do, have their children in grammars or even in the top independents on scholarships/bursaries.

Tiffinboys by the same token its not the responsibility for Tiffin school to provide local education for Kingston residents its the local council.

Vow! what a great idea. If schools don't have to teach the children from local areas, why 99% have distance policy. Why it is requirement to teach 'wholly or mainly' from the area in which these are situated?

In other words, do you wish all school to be able to admit from any area they may like?

"In other words, do you wish all school to be able to admit from any area they may like?"

many catholic schools already do this. There is an outstanding catholic children that take practicing catholic children from 15 miles away over less concienous catholics on it door step.

or if you are PM, all sort of exceptions could be made at Oratory.

Isn't faith schools do this if they don't find enough of their kind in the local catchment.

It could be Tiffin school is also casting its net wide and far for what they want too...

Again it seems like we want a free brand name school. Although we don't want Ryan to play....

The basis of the argument is feeble.

I can't get in its them damn people not from our side of the fence stealing our places....Lets lobby the school change the rules to favour our children...

What are you going to do next camp out at Oxford because the way they admit students is unfair. They are pro active to one group but not your little James group.?...

Lets go one step futher why not stalk their future employer ....because they didnt accept your James for mentoring.

Then what when its time for promotion and James is overlooked...Will you write a petition to the board...

The basis of argument is silly ....Yes there are losers. TBH...at some stage in your life you have to accept it...

No. The argument is not silly. If it was, then vast majority of grammars would not have distance/catchment policies. It is very easy to try to discard other view as silly when you don't have good argument, other than your wish to keep Tiffins open selective for as long as possible as that might suit you, not living locally.

I do live locally as I own properties within a 1 to 5 mile catchment area of the school. I might not live there but I could if I so want to. Like I have said before I would benefit quite well financially. If your scheme was to be inacted.

The point is why are you comparing. The fact is a brand name school like Tiffin operate its admission criteria on its own terms. I don't see why you just want James to go. Then bar Ryan...

A simple method if you want to go to a grammar with local catchment area. Wouldn't it be easier just to move to an area that has your criteria?.

Thats if you don't mind seeing Ryan every day.

This James Ryan argument is not advocated by me. It seems that you want to create digression.

And I was expecting soon you would declare living locally. Also seen your query about your 'tenant'.

All schools have a name - so all have brand. What's the point? Other than just to add something totally irrelevant.

Its not irrelevant to point out that the school has an admission criteria. Which has worked for them. I am quite sure they will not change criteria.

You have made the point that it is unfair for other areas to have a catchment area whereas Tiffin school relies rightly or wrongly on admission score.

The fact is to remedy this wrong done unto you. Would be to move to an area where there is a grammar catchment area.

I quite like the analogy of James and Ryan. I think it does highlight an interesting point in the discussion.

It may seem to you that I am pouring cold water onto your argument of catchment area for Tiffin school.

Its just I am more pragmatic in my approach to solving problems. Unless your vested interest is not with the children. Although I would say if you do succeed thank you. I will make a killing on the rent hikes...

It is old saying, but you would understand....

Every snake will shed his skin one day.....

I just feel I ought to point out to you...your wasting your time with Tiffin school....to change criteria...

Lobby for a new one....

Of course anyone from Godalming or Dorset or Timbuctoo would want Tiffins to remain open selective, even their own children go to good private schools. Nothing to loose.

By the way, Tiffins were equally successful even when it had only Kingston based catchment until 1990.

Any change to distance policy based on selective ability will not make any difference to Tiffin. In fact, due to lesser travelling time, children could study better, have better social skills, and enjoy life better. I thnk the last 2 are equally important. For some children coming from far away areas, Kenlee, life is not much different from Hong Kong children's, which you too don't like for sure.

actually in HK we dont have a catchment problem but ccompetition for band 1 schools are feirce. The kids are all tutored to within an inch of their lives..

My daughter was lucky and got into a good band 1 school. Although I felt rote learning isnt the way forward. Although we do have students from shenzhen and Guangzhou who travel for 1 to 2 hrs for the better schools in HK.

So I suppose there really is no difference .. only in the way its taught .

I suppose they do the work on the train trip up and down.

Well,

1. We would like our children to go to local school and good local school. Tiffins are our local schools.

1. Due to open selection, Tiffins are contributing to children being 'tutored to with inch of their lives'. We hope to stop that.

1. When in train or bus, enjoy the ride. Stress kills and make children more aggressive. We would like to avoid that as much as possible.

I agree...but I do think lobbying Tiffin will not work..

I suggest and it is a valid argument to lobby the council to not enter the 200 Tiffin places into Kingston school placement. Then get them to set up a local school for local children.

In the mean time and you have no alternative them move house.

I never understood the over tutoring route but I understand it is popular in the UK....

Perhaps posting from or coming from Hong Kong, you would better understand tutoring to get school places.

Tiffin I thought it was only endemic in Hong Kong...but its getting popular in the UK...

never understood the thinking behind it...Although I know your not likely to get into a good grammar if you haven't...

That is sad really...

We were lucky that we didn't realize in the begining that admission to Tiffins are so competitive. We relied on DIY, except for few months towards the end, which gave us idea about the peers performance.

If Tiffins were to adopt distance policy, it will also help reduce the need for as extensive tutoring as it is being done now. Tutoring will not be eliminated but could be greatly reduced.