Parents from private schools

[freakazoidroid]

We are considering private school for our dd. She is already at the nursery of the school we like and is due to start in reception in sept.
What I am worried about is the community of a private school. If she went to our local primary it would be more like that.
Can anyone please say what their experiences are? Have you made good friends with other parents and socialise with them?
Also we are not loaded and do not have a massive house and lots of nice holidays. In fact holidays would not occur much if we go private.
Will this hinder my dd at school as she gets older with her friends, will they pick on her for not having the lifestyle?
Thanks!

There are some interesting comments about diversity on this thread

There is more to diversity than how much money individuals have.

At my dc's nursery - there are a lot of expats as well as a variety of different religions/ethnic backgrounds

I absolutely agree, teddy. I think the last few posts have only been about monetary diversity because that is what seeker insists cannot and does not happen at private schools.

Tonbridge School in Kent have full-fees bursaries and King's Canterbury commitment to full fee bursaries was provided for by 1541 statute, and continues to this day.

Seeker - those are probably the two most prestigious schools in your county. It's rather dangerous the way you dish-out your ten penny worth as fact. You do have a responsibility to be accurate. Perhaps you could link us to the two prestigious independent schools near you that offer no full-fees bursary?

I instantly thought of Kings Canterbury when seeker mentioned prestigious independent near her. But then dismissed it as I have experience of very generous bursaries (admittedly not full fee) from there.

I asked MN to delete this thread, Seeker. :( They want me to report individual posts, but the problem is a large multitude of targetted comments .

I think you need to hide this thread if HQ won't listen to either of us.

Sutton Trust says that the posher the school the fewer the means-tested bursaries, and less than 4% of the Indie sector pupils are on means-tested bursaries anyway. Doesn't sound very socially representative or diverse, anyway.

Oh bother, I read the report wrong, didn't I? It's

lljkk - did seeker ask you to have the thread deleted?

The ISC figures are at odds with those llj:

'As of 2010/11, a total of 164,105 pupils at ISC schools (33.2%) receive help with their fees. The majority of these pupils ? 138,975 - receive scholarships or bursaries from their school. The value of this help totals more than £660 million per year. More than 80% of total fee assistance comes directly from the schools themselves: ISC schools provided more than £550 million of assistance with fees in the academic year 2010/11. Schools gave approximately twice as much assistance in the form of bursaries as they did in scholarships. Over £260 million of assistance was in the form of means-tested bursaries.'

www.isc.co.uk/FactsFigures_BursariesScholarships.htm

Ave income is 12.5M pa then 4% means over £500,00O pa is spent on bursaries in an average fee-paying school.

Ah I see what's going on. Lots of schools have trusts which are separate from the school. Sutton Trust are using fee income percentage spend on bursaries.

'The numberof bursaries does not indicate the presence of poor children. Just usually slightly less rich ones!'

These days most bursaries are means tested on a sliding scale so you don't get one of any sort if your income is sufficiently large and you get a full one if you have no or minimal income. This is from the MGS site:

'Fee assistance is based on the total gross income (earned and unearned) of the household in which the boy lives, less an allowance for each dependent child of approximately £2,200 or, in the case of an older brother or brothers at MGS, the current fees paid.

Assistance is calculated on a sliding scale such that parents with assessable income of less than approximately £18,500 will receive full fee remission and those in excess of approximately £38,750 will not be entitled to any assistance. Parents with assessable income of approximately £28,750 will be entitled to approximately half fee remission.'

Now we don't know how many children are in receipt of full bursaries but we do know that all of those in receipt of any bursary have a family income of less than £38,750. And we know that 250 children fall into the category at one school.

I doubt there's even one family at my children's state primary ( non faith, non selective) whose household income is less than £38,750.

Also my older son's independent school won't give bursaries if there are household assets over a certain amount. So there's no fudging; the recipients aren't wealthy people diverting income to capital. One of Ds1's friends had his bursary withdrawn when school somehow noticed his family were having the loft of their bog standard 30s semi converted.

It's scholarships which offer a small percentage off the fees, these are dependent on the child's ability and not the parents income. There are very few scholarships which cover 100% of the fees. Bursaries are dependent upon the parents income and are reviewed yearly. There's no way of knowing which family receives financial support from a school. There's a sliding scale of support. I think you need to get your facts right before you post something which is wrong.

I apologise. I was misinformed about King's.

The fact remains that the number of children on full bursaries at independent schools is still very small.

However, I think I see the problem.

"I doubt there's even one family at my children's state primary ( non faith, non selective) whose household income is less than £38,750."

You all must live in a very different, alternative universe to me, where very different definitions of poverty pertain.

A family I know applied for bursary when both Mum and Dad lost their jobs. They said the questions asked were very penetrating.

Nobody on this thread has said that there is a high number of children on full bursaries at private schools.

the dispute has been with you saying (at every opportunity, for a number of years) that there are no children below the poverty line at private schools.

this is not true.

and I took the post mentioning the £38k salary as saying 'even at my local state schol there is no one below this level of income' - this doe shappen in some areas, you know. as I mentoined earlier, thereis far more diversity (in every way) at my child's private school than there is at my local state primary. I live in prime commuter belt, there is little economic diversity unless you step outside the state sector. there is considerable diversity at my child's school - some 15 miles away from where I live - far more than she would have at her local school. and there are several families on far less than £38k/annum at her school.

obviously, there will be more families who are better off at private schools. no one has disputed this. but hopefully you have learnt a few things along the way, including actually checking facts about schools before you post willy nilly (King's has an incredibly generous bursary scheme, and is also willing to re-structure fee schedules (on very generous terms) alongside paying substantial bursaries, which further helps families who would not access the school any other way)

wordfactory - having been involved in filling out bursary application forms, the questions are indeed penetrating, and leave no stone unturned.

Seeker - interesting that you've failed to come back with those prestigious schools. The basis of your appeal to the grammar school is that you feel too middle-class and superior for the other school. How dare you play the victim while deriding others for making choices for their own children, when you yourself are making choices for your own children that totally jar with everything you've ever purported to believe in.

I completely understand why you don't want anyone to know you are appealing against non qualification for a grammar school place. [understatement face] And for that reason you may want to get Mumsnet to delete this thread.

Seeker - There is precisely nothing you could teach me about the plight of the poor in this country.

I was wrong about King's. The other I was a thinking about is St Edmund's

No, those are not the grounds for my appeal. As you know perfectly well. That is a ridiculous thing to say- I thought better of you.

I have non problem at all with people knowing that I am appealing for a grammar schoo place for my son. Why would I have talked about it so openly and at such length otherwise?

And I have no desire to have the thread deleted. Why would I? I come out of it significantly better than many other posters. I have nothing to be ashamed of or to apologise for. Can you say the same?

We're not confusing 'being on less than £38 k a year' with being genuinely disadvantaged here are we? Or thinking that 'several' families on less than that in an entire school equates to massive diversity? Or thinking that these incredibly generous bursaries are distributed willy nilly in the local council estates?

i was merely making the point that private schools are sometimes more socioeconomically inclusive than state schools. The high school you're refusing is probably more comprehensive ability-wise than some comprehensive schools and very possibly more socioeconomically comprehensive than comprehensive schools elsewhere.

ElaineReesedon't forget that bursaries are given to those whose families who could not afford the fees. That doesn't mean that they should all be given to people on a local council estate. Two families could have an income difference of 15,000 pounds plus but neither could afford the fees so are both equally entitled to apply for a bursary (albeit the bursary would be on a sliding scale) By awarding a bursary to either family would increase accessibility as without it neither could attend.

I'm not refusing the high school. Why do you persist in misrepresenting me?

I think it very unlikely that a school on edge of an area of significant social deprivation is more socioeconomically diverse than practically anywhere!