Competitively rank students by results say Gove

[noblegiraffe]

Our esteemed Education Secretary has praised an academy in London which ranks pupils every term by their results in each subject.

Now I'm sure that parents of the kid who comes top will be pleased and proud, but what about the poor kids who are less academically able or who have SEN who are destined to by told term after term that they are rubbish? That their achievements, though they may be the product of hard work and great determination are of less value than a more academically able student who has slacked off and winged a good result on the test? How will that do anything but completely demotivate them and destroy their self-esteem?

What the fuck is he thinking?

If any of you have any respect for Gove as Education Minister, I sincerely hope that this changes your mind.

The problem is with all pontificating about education policy is that those without kids have only their (not valid in court evidence) memories to fall back on
and those with kids only know (from a single parent's view) what their kids are attending

which is why I UTTERLY defer to my DHs views as he works in so many schools that he genuinely DOES know the spectrum

shame that those writing Gove's agenda are too narrow minded.
They know who DH is. But he scares them.

But TalkinPeace2, what about the headteacher at Burlington Danes, don't you think he/she is also an expert?

And what if your DH's views are different to the Burlington Danes's headteacher? Who is right?

Gordon Brown was Chancellor of teh Exchequer, they called him "Prudence", but he said that there would be no more boom and bust. People in high places, with letters after their name and years of experience can still get things awfully wrong.

The times have changed. A new view of education is being developed and some of the progressive views of the past will likely be discarded until the progrressives get back into power again.

My school (back in the 80s) did this. Your position out of the 200 in the year was shown on your report for every subject, as was your overall position when everything was averaged out.

I went through the whole of my secondary school career feeling like I just wasn't good enough, I was failing, and every time I saw it in black and white it just rubbed it in a bit more.

I was fifth. Out of 200. In a selective school where probably another 500 kids didn't get a place. And I felt like I was crap.

Still, maybe the top 4 did better because of it. Sod the other 700.

Another one of Mr Gove's fantastic ideas.

DO NOT start me on GB the idiot
I saw through him in 2002

The head of A school who has only worked in comps in London (where the top 30% are routinely creamed off to private school) does NOT have the breadth of knowledge that my DH has.

DH has been in special schools where the kids are often kept in "restraint" clothes
and in private prep schools where the divorce rate is 110%
and in army district sink schools where every kid moves after two terms as the regiment does
and yummy grammars where every child was tutored and has struggled since
and the secondary moderns they left behind
and comps in areas of 44% unemployment
AND the wonderful comps that truly are and show the hope for the future

you find me that breadth of experience in those who set policy .....

Glad that your DH has breadth of knowledge. doesn't make you an expert though, does it?
How can the divorce rate in prep schools be 110%? I am sure that you can't have more than 100%.
My DH is a whizz with Tornado aircraft. I am still waiting for it to rub off.

TalkinPeace2, I am sure your DH knows a hell of a lot, but it may be that his views are not in accord with the direction of travel of the current government. I don't think Gove dreams up all his policies on his own; he must have advisers that he makes use of.

I found an article about Burlington Danes. Oftsed put it into special measures in 2004 and headteacher Sally Coates has turned it round.

www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-and-hammersmith-news/local-fulham-and-hammersmith-news/2011/07/15/burlington-danes-academy-shines-despite-missing-out-on-top-award-82029-29061063/

aaarrgggghhh since when is any other profession judged by pure experience and not by research?? Why can't policies and practices in the teaching profession be actually professional, and not based on "common sense".

One person's experience is going to be extraordinarily limited in determining what is best practice. There is a massive range of schools and educational environments.

Please please please can people stop thinking they know best because they went to school.

pure
110% divorce rate = easy ; several people divorced twice or more
I am DH's PA - I review all his correspondence and do his accounts. And we are not bound by the official secrets act so chat over supper about business strategy.

claig
but my point is that Gove's "advisers" are 23 year old ex public school wonks who have NO IDEA how the state system works

Henry de Zoete
Adviser to Michael Gove
Age: 29
Earns: c. £55,000
Family and education: A scion of the de Zoete banking family. At Ludgrove and Eton in the year above Prince William, then Bristol university.
Social circle: A social chap who goes drinking with the other media advisers; keeps separate friends outside politics including football buddies and Lefty Eton pals whom he house-shared with in Hackney.

PS
I've not asked for ME to be an adviser to the DFE
I've not got a PGCE and visiting scientist status at an RG Uni
he does
and it would be good if the dfe could get their fingers out of their arses and accept that people outside W1 have a valid point

'aaarrgggghhh since when is any other profession judged by pure experience and not by research?'

Lots of fields are judged by common sense rather than "research". Because we know that "research" is often slanted for political purposes. It depends on who funds it, what questions they ask and who they sample.

It's just like "climate science". Do you really believe what the researchers tell you?

Even Steve Hilton, Cameron's green guru, seems to be having doubts

[[Cameron's green guru reveals his doubts over global warming

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066720/David-Camerons-green-guru-Steve-Hilton-reveals-doubts-global-warming.html#ixzz1evONdG7Q]]

'claig
but my point is that Gove's "advisers" are 23 year old ex public school wonks who have NO IDEA how the state system works'

Yes, trhat is a good point. I don't know if that is the case, but if it is, then it is odd, and they do need to take account of wider, more experienced views.

good post beatenbyayellowteacup

I didn't know that.

Would you ignore what the doctor tells you because you think you know better? Would you presume to tell a lawyer how to argue a case because you've been to court for something?

We despair at the standard of teaching (just read the threads on here, or talk to any teaching staff member who's job is to deal largely with parents) and yet we don't allow schools to do what they think best, which is a right shame because they are professionals and are trained. Teachers continue to study their field well after their PGCE and are committed to sharing good practice. Parents so often expect schools to follow their own principles and ideas, even if it's not the best practice, because the "parents went to school once".

Lets keep teaching professional and not based on experience please.

sorry I'm really ranting here

(and I didn't mean you at anyone in particular)

'Would you ignore what the doctor tells you because you think you know better? Would you presume to tell a lawyer how to argue a case because you've been to court for something?'

I'd check it out for myself first. The internet has allowed ordinary people to doublecheck what the are told and not to follow it blindly.

Lots of people have been told by doictors that there is no hope and have discovered cures and doctors in other countries who have helped them.

Doctors often have different views about the best treatment and some lawyers are better than others.

Yes but would you presume to know better, as a default position? Because that is what teachers deal with. Not with every parent, of course, but as a bit of a rule, sadly.

'Lets keep teaching professional and not based on experience please.'

I think that many teachers go along with the prevailing view. Once upon a time, they mainly thought taht "look and see" was best, and now they think that phonics is best. Who is to say that won't change again in 50 years' time?

Gove has already made changes to GCSEs with the coursework aspects that were in place for many years.

Things change, nothing is set in stone. Views differ and different governments think differently.

beaten
I would presume to allow teachers to work to strategic targets and sort the tactics out themselves
same as doctors
BUT
with CLEAR lines off communication for dissemination of good (and bad practice) without condemnation.

Since Pilots were given a RELIABLE method to anonymously report near misses for learning not conviction purposes, Air safety has improved exponentially.
Surely the same good practice should be applied to other professions that can affect each of us every year.

'Yes but would you presume to know better, as a default position?'

No, not as a default position.

But there are some things like competition and competitive sports days that every person in teh country has a right to have a view about. Praising excellence and competition are often discouraged by certain political persuasions and encouraged by others. That's why we vote for teh government which reflects our views on these fundamental matters.

Of course they have a right to have a view about it.

It just often feels like parents think they know better, and don't actually realise how much research and continual training goes on to make education professional. We're not just guessing.

Of course views will change, that's what research in any humanities/sociological field will encourage. Still doesn't mean that one person's experience of school, or a few discussion over a dinner table or school gates, mean that they know better than the research.

talkinpeace that sounds like a professional and sound plan, as long as it doesn't become a hidden way to pick on someone. Teaching is more subjective than near misses - that's my only concern.

beaten
Priate Eye have been campaigning for an equivalent in
the NHS
Social services
Local Government
Schools
the Police
etc etc
since the Bristol Heart Surgery scandal and the face that whistleblowers still are forced to sign gagging contracts that hide criminal activity and other dangerous practices

That's interesting - will look that up

'It just often feels like parents think they know better, and don't actually realise how much research and continual training goes on to make education professional. We're not just guessing.'

I think governments and the educational establishment should listen more to parents. I think the free schools are an attempt to listen more to parents. Many parents who can afford it, choose to send their children private, and want the type of competitive education that Gove is talking about. They don't all agree with the state school ethos, which is often anti-competitive and which rewards for effort more than for achievement.