Saturday Detentions . Cant work out if its a good or bad thing .

[wakeupandsmellthecoffee]

This is at a normal state comp .
At Xxxxxx, we are constantly aiming to develop and improve. It is clear that the more time students
are in lessons, the better they achieve.In the past , if a student has repeatedly failed to attend
detentions set for incomplete coursework or homework, they have been sanctioned with a day in the
Inclusion Room. Although this solution has enabled them to catch up on work they should have done
already, it has meant that they have fallen behind in work from other lessons during that day
To prevent this happening, while also ensuring students complete all work expected of them, we have
decided to trial two new sanctions. Students who have not completed coursework or homework for the
required deadline and who have not attended detentions set by their teacher,and then by the Head of
Faculty, will:
· Be put into a two hour detention on a Saturday morning when they will be required to complete
the missing work. One week?s notice will be given of a Saturday morning detention; or
· Where it is deemed appropriate, parents/carers will be asked to attend an after school session with the student in the Learning Resource Centre to supervise their son / daughter completing the missing work .
We will monitor the success of these measures in ensuring students meet coursework and homework
deadlines.
This new system will be implemented from Monday 21November 2011, with Saturday detentions
beginning on Saturday 26 November.
Yours faithfully

Mrs B OSS LADY

To be fair this is a final result . And many things seem to be put in place befor this happens ,ie warnings , checking that nothing is going on elsewhere that would prevent them from completing their work .
Also what about the poor teacher having to supervise it .

Thing is the kids don't have to go to the detentions. They could just get the work done. I'd like to think I would make sure my kids would meet their deadlines and if they didn't I'd be glad the school would offer a solution to make sure they did.

Those parents who wouldn't like their kids to go to Saturday detentions, absolutely fair enough. But then it's your job to make sure they do the work so they don't have to.

dairyfairy - actually I live in a very rural area where my ds has to take 1 1/2 hours to get to his college in the morning on 3 buses!

Detentions are not given for the convenience of the student or family but more is to give an inconvenience in order for it to be a punishment; as I said before, a school an isolated area such as you describe would have a large number of steps in place before it would give out a Saturday detention.

Therefore if it got to a Saturday detention then it would show the seriousness of the offence/the number of times that the student had ignored the warnings etc and maybe the family/student would understand the impact of the behaviour/effort displayed for the future of the student in the long run.

I think it is a great idea - but unworkable in some more rural areas, unless the school is going to lay on transport there and back - not everyone has a CAR. It would be fine for my DD, who lives a 5 min walk away from her school, and frankly, if she hadn't done her work, AND hadn't attended the after-school detention (how do the parents not know about the after-school detention, anyway? - if DD turned up at home when she was meant to have an after-school, I'd bloody well MARCH her back to the school!). The school e-mails the parents if their dc have got an after-school.

ONCE I have disagreed with the school about an after-school detention - At the time, I had NO computer access. DD booked the first available slot in the ICT suite - which was 2 days after the H/wk was due in. She asked for an extension, got refused the extention, and got the after-school straight away because the teacher "Didn't do lunchtime detentions". I refused to let DD go - she handed the work in as soon as her slot in the ICT suite came up.

For anything that involved DD's behaviour or not doing work through not being bothered, I would back the school.

However - If it was DS1, I cannot MAKE his father send him to a Saturday detention when it is his weekend, and I know Ex-H wouldn't send him - 1) To try to get ME into trouble, and 2) Because it would mean having to get up to get DS1 out of the house on time.

Also, if it was DS2 - His dad lives too far away for him to go to a Saturday detention when it is his weekend.

My solution to both would be to ask the school to postpone the Saturday detention by one week - so it would be on MY weekend, and I could strong-arm either DS1 or DS2 to the detention.

So, I still think, that in most areas, this is a GOOD IDEA. The threat would be enough - and if it wasn't, then realistically, no form of discipline would work with that dc, so a fixed-term exclusion would be the way to go for those that do not turn up for the Saturday detention. A fixed 'ladder' of punishments would let everyone know what to expect - and a Saturday detention is pretty far up the scale.

Break-time detention. Lunch time detention. After school detention. After school detention with HoY. Saturday detention. Fixed term exclusion. Permanent exclusion.

So a Saturday detention would be step 5 in the disciplinary process - you don't get that many steps in the disciplinary process when you are working before you get the sack.

I may even suggest this to my DD's school's HT - I am that sure that it would be a GOOD THING for discipline.

cory - "The way the OP was stated, this sanction could be handed out not just for brattiness, but for failure to complete coursework or homework. In other words, the kind of failure that is associated with school refusing"

failure to do coursework/homework is nothing to with school refusing it is to do with a student who is to bone idle to do the work required. A school refuser is just that - refuses to go to school and there are many steps in place to help with that and no school would issue detentions for an actual school refuser.

The detentions that are spoken of are for students who attend school and do not complete the work/misbehave and do not comply with the usual punishments

I remember it well.....when I was at school there was one female teacher I would have volunteered to do overtime with.....

To EDITH

Hi, just wanted to correct an incorrect comment on your part. As it happens, legally parents may NOT refuse attendance of after school detentions or saturday detentions.

They may request a deferment or cancellation citing various circumstances but the final decision rests with the school.

If the school decides the detention still stands the parents may complain to the governors but in the meantime the detention must go ahead i.e. its a retrospective complaint.

This is not a dfe recommendation by the way- this is uk law for state schools.

This may be slightly changed soon however as the House of Lords is considering the government's removal of the 24h parental notification requirement.

ps I should also say your proportionality argument is flawed. One could argue that a lunch detention would harm a very social student whilst not bother a less gregarious one thus making lunchtime detentions inherently unfair.

This is incorrect of course.

If a saturday detention, clearly advertised, is a possible sanction, the onus is clearly on the student to avoid getting one. If the family has to pay for taxis, such funds should be deducted from future birthday presents. If family arrangements have to be altered the child should apologise to all concerned. Thus NO students should have not have immunity from any school sanction.

In my personal experience, saturday detentions and after school detentions are vastly more effective than lunchtime ones.

Jx

What would happen to a family who refused to send a child to out-of-hours detentions?

And what would a school do if a child were left on the premises with no reasonable way of getting home? (Say after school, dark, rural 10+ miles, school bus gone, no other public transport, non-driving family?)

scaevola,

depends on the school.

in the case of an after school detention a member of staff can simply escort the child to the detention and thats that.

in the case of a saturday detention, obviously schools cannot do that so if the student didn't attend the school can exclude the offender. They could in fact exclude the child until the saturday detention is served thus rapidly escalating the situation to a pre- expulsion situation. But most parents and students would capitulate when faced with that.

In the case of 'no way home'- thats the parents responsibility entirely. Currently they will have had at least 24 hours notice so should have arranged something. Ultimately they may have to pay for a cab - and recoup the money through reduced birthday presents etc.

If the school couldn't contact the parents on the day and if the school was worried that the parents were simply going to abandon the child and they felt there was a travel risk they could ask the child to stay on the premises and they could contact social services who would collect the child and subsequently fine/monitor the parents.

It is absolutely imperative that all students have the same expectations and sanctions across the board.

I have to say it seems to me to be very unfair, as there are too many variables when you go outside the normal school week. Teen X ends up with SS involvement, but teen Y doesn't, just because of the existence or non-existence of a bus route. Teen A loses a Saturday lie-in, teen B loses her Saturday job, Teen C has to miss visit to hospitalised sibling.

I am really glad my teenager goes to a school that doesn't do such things.

scaevola,
I think its perfectly fair.

'loses a lie in?'- oh the poor dear! - don't get a detention on the 1st place then!!! ditto for the other examples.

and the bus route is not the schools business- walk or get a taxi surely?

All sanctions are unpleasant by definition- otherwise they cease to be sanctions.

My family would be seriously inconvenienced if I lost my driving license. So consequently I obey the laws and no court will feel the need to sanction me by removing my license. But if they did- it. would. be. my. fault.

Loses a lie in - great!
Loses their Saturday job - disproportionate.
Seriously ill sibling loses visit - damned unfair, on the sibling and wider family.

The impact is too variable to ever be a fair system. Not every school uses out of hours sanctions; itis not in itself necessary.

Objecting to the (inherent) unfairness of impact BTW is not synonymous with excusing or tolerating bad behaviour, and I dislike some of the insinuation/assumption in places on this thread.

There are better ways to the same end, and many schools who do not use out of hours sanctions have found them. Much better models.

on the contrary it is a perfect of example of something being entirely fair.

-if they lose their job they have but one person to blame - themselves

• if they cannot visit their sibling then they will have visit on the sunday or a week day evening. and this inconvenience is down to their action/inactions.

One would think these detentions are somehow randomly issued in the same way one might pick up a flu virus.

It is the kids CHOICE as to whether they get the detention or not- if they did their work, arrived to lessons on time, obeyed the rules and treated people with respect then no detention will ever blight their lives.

As I mentioned before, its not that 'out of hours' detentions are just a 'bit' more effective than lunch ones, its that they are a VASTLY more effective deterrent.

Its the very inconvenience to the child and their family that makes them more likely to not want to transgress.

Remember teachers don't actually want to issue detentions- they would rather that kids are afraid of breaking the rules in the 1st place.

Thats why the uk's best and most improved schools use both afterschool and saturday detentions regularly.

Really?

We are living in very different populations, and I hope you never end up dealing with the realities of chronic and serious illness. And can continue in the unrealistic bubble of a (presumably non-rural) world (populated exclusively by car owners who can also afford taxis) where the impact of destroying a family visit to sick child (for it is the hospitalised one who suffers if the family cannot come) is considered on a par with trivial inconvenience.

As I say, plenty of schools have a far more evoved response. Out of hours sanctions, especially when applied heedlessly of consequences, re not universal. I am only now, in light if this thread, beginning to realise just how very lucky we are to have one where children are not treated as a homogenised lump.

DS1's school have Saturday detentions, and he has just told me that they are only for truants, and a parent has to sign them in and out.

Seems like a good way to ensure attendance during the week to me.

I agree with eightieschick that they are meant to be inconvenient, for the child and the parents, because in many cases if the parents were more concerned about their child's behaviour in school it wouldn't be so bad. Not always, and here I include myself, as I we have DN living with us and he has had many, many Saturday morning detentions. It is a bit of a walk of shame going into school in uniform because you're very likely to see mates around on the bus on you're way back.

DN's school also asked the parents of a group of boys who were caught fighting after school to collect them personally at the end of every school day. I should think there were conversations over dinner in those houses.

The teachers have to keep making it more and more inconvenient for them to misbehave. This is what I've done at home, with an initially badly behaved teenager who has gone from the remedial class to top set in a year. We were also given an £80 fine for his persistent lateness at the beginning which they waived because they knew our situation was a bit different and we were making him leave on time. A parent who has to pay 80 will soon start making sure their child gets up on time.

One would think these detentions are somehow randomly issued in the same way one might pick up a flu virus.

It is the kids CHOICE as to whether they get the detention or not- if they did their work, arrived to lessons on time, obeyed the rules and treated people with respect then no detention will ever blight their lives.

totally agree

I think that it is a great idea, the DC must be inconveniencing everyone else to get one in the first place and so they should be inconvenienced themselves.

It has taken a long time on this thread to get around to the fact that the DC has chosen the course of action to get the detention. It is very, very simple to have all Saturdays free-behave themselves.

However, I don't think it is workable-certainly not in rural areas. (If it is an oversubscribed school where a parent is desperate to get a place it would be simple, they sign saying they will get them there on a Saturday or the place goes to the next on the list).
Maybe they could be given a choice and if they say they can't make a Saturday they get to litter pick for a month or similar.

DN sometimes tells me there are kids in his class who behave badly but don't get told off as much as him, or get given detentions etc. I wonder if these children are with ones whose parents won't support the school.

I have often wanted DN's school to be much stricter with detentions. A couple of weeks ago he missed two 8am detentions, both given for lateness. As a result he was given one Saturday morning detention, but this meant he no longer had to do the 8am ones he completely ignored. I made him do one of them - or he is just choosing when he does his 'time'. For DN, getting into school for 8am is possibly tougher than getting up for 10am on the weekend.

DCs who have parents who support the school are going to do better IMO. If my DS got a Saturday detention I would be inconveniencing him as much as possible so that he chose not to do it again.

scaevola I think in the case of missing a visit to a sick sibling DN's school would merely offer a different sanction. They always call me to tell me he had a Saturday morning detention so I'm sure there is an opportunity to talk. Not a homogenous lump at all - Dn's teachers have been incredibly understanding of his difficult situation. Presumably very rural schools where children live too far away even to cycle in (which must be quite far?) choose a different system.

scaevola,

I think the comments others have posted here are excellent and I hope you can take them on board.

In the case of a REAL emergency then a school can always delay an after school detention to the following day or a saturday detention to the following weekend.

However, its still the case that the child will have EARNT the detention- through their actions. Its entirely just.

If they don't like the 'time' then they shouldn't do the 'crime'.

Even in rural communities transport can be found- be it bike, taxi or car. Expense?- take it out of their xmas present money.