Saturday Detentions . Cant work out if its a good or bad thing .

[wakeupandsmellthecoffee]

This is at a normal state comp .
At Xxxxxx, we are constantly aiming to develop and improve. It is clear that the more time students
are in lessons, the better they achieve.In the past , if a student has repeatedly failed to attend
detentions set for incomplete coursework or homework, they have been sanctioned with a day in the
Inclusion Room. Although this solution has enabled them to catch up on work they should have done
already, it has meant that they have fallen behind in work from other lessons during that day
To prevent this happening, while also ensuring students complete all work expected of them, we have
decided to trial two new sanctions. Students who have not completed coursework or homework for the
required deadline and who have not attended detentions set by their teacher,and then by the Head of
Faculty, will:
· Be put into a two hour detention on a Saturday morning when they will be required to complete
the missing work. One week?s notice will be given of a Saturday morning detention; or
· Where it is deemed appropriate, parents/carers will be asked to attend an after school session with the student in the Learning Resource Centre to supervise their son / daughter completing the missing work .
We will monitor the success of these measures in ensuring students meet coursework and homework
deadlines.
This new system will be implemented from Monday 21November 2011, with Saturday detentions
beginning on Saturday 26 November.
Yours faithfully

Mrs B OSS LADY

To be fair this is a final result . And many things seem to be put in place befor this happens ,ie warnings , checking that nothing is going on elsewhere that would prevent them from completing their work .
Also what about the poor teacher having to supervise it .

Why do posters assume that inability to manage unexpected demands on time is in anyway connected to attitude to education or discipline?

Not everyone is lucky enough to have all family members in perfect health and access to car/bicycle/public transport or a school within walking distance.

I think it is unreasonable to expect teachers to have to remember so much detail about children's personal circumstances, so they can avoid a) giving out-of-hours sanctions with disproportionate effect and/or b) punishments which become intrinsically unfair because they have to differ between two perpetrators (ie one gets out-of-hours detention, but the other doesn't because of non-school factors).

I love the whole idea - as a secondary teacher and a mother to a teenager!

I would imagine that it the Saturday would be staffed by a member of SLT and that it would be the very last resort; it would more than likely only have to happen once, the message will spread very quickly!

The idea of a parent supervising a detention is fantastic! Not only will this help to show the behaviour/effort etc being displayed by their child but I can not think of many kids who would want to be in school, supervised by their mum or dad!

If my ds had to miss his activities for the day; tough luck son! you knew the consequences of your actions......

'Not everyone is lucky enough to have all family members in perfect health and access to car/bicycle/public transport or a school within walking distance. '

True so students whose families have these problems need to bear this in mind before they misbehave. They need to be made responsible for their actions, like everyone else.

I really don't see how a child who has consistently failed to turn up to an after school detention is magically going to turn up to a Saturday detention. Or how parents who have consistently either (a) unwilling or (b) unable to make their child complete homework and coursework are magically going to acquire the motivation or the ability to do so at the Learning Resource Centre.

Renniehorta: I hope you're not a teacher. And I hope you don't work as a HCP either.

Juule: because if they have a job or an activity they care about, and they know that not doing homework might result in having to skip said engagement, they will try harder to hand in homework on time.

edith - I can't see why you have asked that about Renniwhorta? What is so bad about stating the obvious? All students make the decision to not follow the rules, so why should one group be allowed to do what they want as they can't attend a Saturday detention? What message is that giving teenagers?

I posted that observation because, as I have already said, families may be dealing with circumstances which would make an out-of-hours punishment disproportionate.

I do think that those who seek to take up those hours, with zero consideration for the actual impact, are unsuitable to be in teaching roles. The HCP comment was an add on, and I agree less relevant, but an HCP (or SW) would be likely to have a better grasp of the types of issues I allude to.

I thought that might be what you meant SuiGeneris. While true for some, for others they might just cause them to become disinterested in their w/e activities or jobs, too, and become disillusioned with everything.

the actual impact though is due to the behaviour/effort shown by the teenager (not a child) and as such, all teenagers need to learn this.

I actually feel very offended that you think I am unsuitable to be in a teaching role as I believe that all teenagers need to learn to behave regardless of their circumstances

I will ask you then, what sanctions you think will work with 'real' teenagers in the 'real' world?

I am very happy with the disciplinary standards, policy and sanctions as used in my teenager's school.

It does not involve out-of-hours sanctions at all.

can I ask then - what 'type' of school your dc go to? I have worked in a very rough school situated in an area full of social deprivation and 'leafy' schools.

I can honestly tell you that whilst on the surface, discipline standards might seem good in a school when you go and work in one, it is obvious that there are 'hidden' things going on.....

I actually applaud the school for being up front and honest that their sanctions are not working and to suggest another way forward. After the number of years I have worked in schools this is one sanction that could work (after the kids see it in action and not just an empty threat). Especially with those who think that they do not need to conform to acceptable behaviour standards because they have a get out clause

Of course there may be issues of which I am unaware. But are also not having any perceptible impact, nor attracting adverse judgements by OFSTED.

The Government rules on detentions include being able to refuse attendance if "you can?t reasonably make alternative arrangements for collecting your child from school".

This would of course cover many cases where the impact would be disproportionate. (And I am surprised at posters who do not see proportionality as relevant in deciding sanction).

And it will leave the school with a problem of unfairness, when pupils might have to receive very different sanctions for similar behaviour.

My DCs school have had saturday dententions for the whole time I've had children there (10 years so far). The behaviour policy which contains the information about detentions is freely available on the school website and the dates for saturday detentions are on the school calendar. There is usually only one a term. The policy does state that the family's circumstances will be taken into account but inconvenience isn't a reason for non attendance. If saturday detentions aren't attended then the next step is fixed term exclusion.

I didn't realise they didn't happen in other schools and I would certainly make sure that any of mine attended if they were supposed. However a saturday detention is quite far along the sanctions list and you would have to have been a pain for a while before you got to this stage.

I've been teaching for 14 years, and have seen after school detentions move from something kids dread getting to something kids laugh at because so many parents refuse to support the school in them. It's no wonder that so many schools (including the one I currently teach at) have issues with discipline. The vast majority of parents of students at my school refuse to allow their kids to go to after school detentions, and will give a variety of unnecessary excuses if questioned - even those whose chidlren WALK home from school. It makes the job difficult, as kids think they can get away with whatever they like. We have a new(ish) HT who is gradually turning things around, but if parents don't support the school and its systems, how on earth are schools supposed to deal with poor behaviour?

Once again, there seems to be an underlying assumption that parents who cannot accommodate an out-of-hours sanction are being unsupportive or do not care either about their own DCs behaviour or that of the wider community.

how can the parents not accommodate out of hours sanctions? These are not young children, but young adults who are more than capable of choosing not to behave in an acceptable manner and are more than capable of getting themselves home.
I have even had a parent say that her pfc (who was 15 at the time and DID not suffer from any medical problems!) could not possibly do a lunchtime detention for 15 mins as he needs to have a rest after he has eaten before afternoon lessons......

When a parent enrols their child to a school, they need to be aware that the school has sanctions that are in place for everyone; if they are not happy then take the child some other school

cricketballs- how do they get themselves home when they live maybe 10 miles away and there is no public transport?
Also an 11 or 12 yo most certainly IS a child!

detention info

Note it says the school MAY reconsider - legally we don't have to! I agree with cricketballs - we're very clear about the sanctions at our school and parents sign up to the code of conduct when their children start. You can't start moaning when they don't follow the rules and punishment follows. That's a life lesson they need to learn.

if an 11 or 12 year old has got to the point of needing an after school detention then there are serious issues!

Schools that are in an area as isolated as you have suggested would have a number of steps in place before an after school detention is issued, if a student has got to that stage, it is only their own fault and they need to face the consequences of their continuing actions

Cricketballs: I'm completely with you on parents who whinge about sanctions during the school day!

I also agree that pupils need to be punished, in a fair and predictable manner.

Out-of-school time sanctions do ot achieve this. Firstly: proportionality: families are not necessarily conveniently at home at weekends. It is not just what the pupil may have planned, it is what all the others under that roof need to do and what is fair and proportionate in respect of all of them.

Secondly: It is totally wrong to assume that unavailability equates to lack of support of disciplinary system. I would not expect staff to have every family's personal circumstances at their fingertips (indeed it may be the case that some aspects are not common knowledge); so they should not be assessing the reasonableness of non-participation on incomplete information, or on stereotype of non-participators.

Thirdly: it is unfair. Not only can it never be applied to Jewish pupils, it also cannot be used reliably in rural areas with inadequate/non-existent transport links. I am trying to work out how on earth one would present it as fair if two pupils were given a Saturday detention but it could be upheld only for one because of the bus company's service level decisions.

The best option then Edith is that the child actually behaves themselves and then none of the problems with out of hours sanctions come up.

ok; to answer your points...

1. a Saturday detention would not be given without enough notice that these issues can not be dealt with or changed to a different Saturday

1. see above

1. Jewish families would be aware of the school sanction system before enrolling and whilst I agree that this would not be suitable for a detention for anyone of the Jewish faith, it is being suggested in extreme circumstances and as already pointed out by pottering these can be negotiated by the school (perhaps serving the detention on a Sunday!)

As to the transport links - see my reply to dairyfairy....a school serving an area in that isolation would have a large number of steps in place before getting and to a Saturday detention and thus a student would have a number of chances of rectifying their behaviour/reason for punishment before it gets to that stage.

All inappropriate behaviour must have consequences which the culprit must have to take 'on the chin' so to speak if there are to learn; if you can't to the time, don't do the crime - or go to another school

Cricket balls you have me worried now . Does this move forward mean that the discipline is failing in the school and this is why they have bought the Saturday detentions in .
I will be honest that when I first read it I was of the thought that weekends are family time and therefor no weekend detentions for us,
I am even against weekend homework because weekend is family time . Monday to Friday school . Saturday and Sunday Free time .
But when I read through all the gumph I realised that a child had to do an awful lot to gain a weekend detention . Seriously there are so many things in place .
I would support them in the smug hopefull dream that my Ds would not get one . LOL
However I do think they are backing themselves into a corner because where do they go after the child and parent has refused or given some lame excuse about not attending the said detention .

wakeup at my DCs school the next step after a refused saturday detention would be a fixed term exclusion.