Diversity in Independent Schools, SE London

[SlimSchadey]

Hello,

I have been going to open days at some SE London private primary schools that are meant to be very good. What I have noticed, above all, is that there seems to be no racial diversity at all -- all the students, teachers, administrators are white with a light smattering of SE Asians, perhaps. Do schools make an effort to enrol a diverse group of students and families? Is anyone else bothered by the idea of a school where essentially all the children are from the same type of background?

OK, I concede that - I don't like selective or faith schools either - the point about non-selective, non-faith schools, etc etc. The sort of schools my kids go to. At primary and at secondary level.

mother, in principle, I also oppose private schools. I also oppose state faith schools and state grammar schools. I am not in a position to change the system we have. I had a choice of an entirely white faith school, an entirely Muslim 'community school', moving house or private school. Any one of those choices would have posed a moral dilemma for me and in the end I felt least hypocritical opting for the private school but also I did what I felt was best for my children in the parituclar context in which I live. I do not see how individuals can be blamed for making choices within a system not of their making and within a system which encourages 'choice' and competition.

No, I can see that, fully. I do think that you faced a different situation from the people who assume private is automatically better, and/or that the vicious divisions in our current society are immutable and/or quite a good thing really!

I feel strongly that every child should go to their local school which should be able to cater for their needs. If this was the system on offer I wouldn't hesitate to send my kids to their local school. It isn't.

Surely as has been stated, private schools and as mentioned above, private hospitals, why complain about them as they take pressure off the others.

You could percieve universities as excluding people, why not let everyone go anywhere they want and complete their deluded minds into believing that they are as good as anyone else, that's fair isn't it?

You know what, that is what is wrong with this country, too many absultely thick people put in jobs for whatever reason, and eorse still they actually think they are good and proud of their false status.

And as for anyone being married to a Nigerian and having mixed race children, how can they be looked at as racist?

I agree with you mother. I accept that makes me a hypocrite to a certain extent. I find that I can live with the moral consequences of my decision to opt out of the state system altogether more than I could with adopting a faith or moving house. Other people make other choices. I think it is wrong to berate individuals for their choices but I totally accept that the attitude of some that they like the segregation, that they like the fact that their kids are benefiting from a system that excludes others, that they accept that 'life is unfair' and see that as quite a good thing stinks.

I didn't send my children to the absolutely most local school, actually. And I realise what that says about me .

I have a conscience FWIW. It also makes me livid rather than happy that there is a gulf between the sort of education my kids get and the sort of education many other kids get in state schools.

Just to add more fuel to the fire I have a fantastic comp on my doorstep best in the county due to our post code my DS was guarenteed a place but still I chose independent ed. Do I feel guilty that my son will receive a better ed than others NO I don't he is clever and passed their entrance test and we were lucky and that's all it is; we applied for a bursary and got one a very generous one. Nothing stopped others from doing the same thing. We have been given an opportunity that many would do anything to be given and would have been nuts not to take it.

good for you happygardening. If you didn't take it someone else would. Nothing to feel guilty about. You do what is best for your children with what means you have.

manathome i agree with you on many things but your last statement "how can someone married to a nigerian be racist ?" i dont.

Are you saying it's impossible for a nigerian to be racist towards another race ? Why would that be ?

So anybody who wouldn't use private education is nuts?

I'm just still sniggering at man telling me not to 'dare' criticising. Quite. Just who do I think I'm talking to, eh?

Foolish fellow.

It's not man, its manathome if you don't mind, anyway Reese, I'm sure you know a lot more than me being a woman!

As for nokissymum, yes you are dead right, Nigerians can be racist towards to another race AND very racist within there own race. I was talking though about a white male being married to a Nigerian female, how could someone call that person racist. Hope that helps.

Well, at least you spelt Reese correctly this time, anyway. Although of course I shouldn't have dreamt of picking you up on it before. Or your numerous other errors in spelling, punctuation and syntax.

So what you are saying then is that Nigerians can be racist, but people who marry Nigerians cannot be racist? I'm not sure that makes an awful lot of sense.

Are you the person married to the Nigerian female?

It's not entirely the point, and annoyingly I can't now find the link, but apparently around one-third of primary age pupils who live in Wandsworth are educated privately.

That does rather suggest that if that is your particular bit of London, you're going to struggle to get the true diversity of the local population reflected in the state primaries.

The rate drops to something like 25% for secondary.

Does make it a very real question about how the state sector in that local authority area could ever hope to provide education for all the children in the area.

There is an interesting book about the morality of choosing private education. I haven't read it all, but the gist is that in an ideal world you wouldn't have it, but in a world where it exists, you may sometimes be justified in choosing it for your child.

Cape apples existed, but I wouldn't have bought them or thought it was OK to buy them or not thought less of anyone who did buy them.

Elaine - the book gives specific examples of where it would be justified. I haven't read it yet, but my understanding is that they're quite limited.

As his basic argument is that nobody has the right to have their potential fully realised if it comes at the cost of somebody else getting a decent basic education, then I think those circumstances are (in his view, anyway) going to be quite restricted. And probably exclude apartheid...

Btw, I think he would also judge quite harshly anybody who didn't send their child to their nearest state school, unless it was actually a failing school.

It really isn't as simple as a state vs private education argument, more about whether it's okay for parents to seek to get their children an unfair advantage in the system. That's his view anyway. I haven't made up my mind yet.

Isitme: or does that mean that certain areas in South London have more diversity in their private schools? (As well as Not Enough state school places - thousands with no place at all, scrabbling round still going on, I believe). 25% is a sizeable slice, not a privileged few.

Scarevola - I agree with you, it's a very sizeable slice. The scrabbling for places is terrifying. We're not in the catchment for our closest school, so we may only get offered one miles away, which could take who knows how long to get to in rush hour.

Poor you! hope it works out.

Actually - I've been wondering - is it %age of Wandsworth children, or %age of school places located in Wandsworth? Because I think there are a lot of private schools there, but their pupil base isn't just Wandsworth.

our DS was at a school which appeared at first sight to bear out some of what you say in a predomominantly white area. But actually what that covered as well as the SE Asians and Nigerians (another strong group round here), were people from all over Europe and the Middle East either the parents' generation or the one before and often the parents themselves were of mixed backgrounds. It made for an interesting discussion, as DS was one of the very few whose ancestry came solely from the British Isles. We were a bit more concerned about diversity at the secondary stage.

But Elaine what if buying the other apples in the store also involved an ethical quandary? Some apples have been grown 1000s of miles away involving all manner of environmental damage to get them to the shop, others have been picked by people on less than the minimum wage? And what if you can't afford the organically grown, fair traided apple?

It's not always easy to take the moral high ground and, when it comes to schools, in many areas any choice has its moral dilemmas.

I suppose it comes down to the best school for your child - state or private. Bob Crow says he is the man of the people, understands their worries but he earns a salary some of us can only dream about. Some people want to pay more tax to get a better NHS or better roads or transport links. Thats fine to talk about that but they never seem to volunteer to pay more without being forced to. I am sure the IR would welcome their cheques with open arms...

There are plenty of people who dont 'believe' in private schools yet choose to send their children there for all sorts of noble reasons - Diane Abbott and Ruth Kelly immediately come to mind.

Our DS's schools are private, the prep is very multi culutral, lots of Asian families and boys from the Far East, I think they are making great sacarfices and especialy amongst our Asian friends education is seen as more important than a nice car, holidays abroad etc. I also believe that the extended family help out in many cases (wish we had that help!).

In fact my older DS goes to a well known private boarding school - when looking around for schools a few years ago a couple of schools mentioned that they tried to keep the abroad boys to about 10% which I have to say was surprising but works well.

It's not a case of the best school for your child if you can't access it because it's too expensive, too selective or too christian. Most people have no choice at all.

If all the other apples were produced by slave labour, then i wouldn't buy any apples.

It would be quite unlikely though. And if I had to have apples, I'd just decide which I thought was least immoral.

Cape apples would come off worst for me every time, just as private schools are, to me, worse than all the other kinds of schools I find dubious (faith, grammar, etc).

To me using private schools is morally worse than any of the others. I know that;s not everyone's opinion, but it is mine.