Diversity in Independent Schools, SE London

[SlimSchadey]

Hello,

I have been going to open days at some SE London private primary schools that are meant to be very good. What I have noticed, above all, is that there seems to be no racial diversity at all -- all the students, teachers, administrators are white with a light smattering of SE Asians, perhaps. Do schools make an effort to enrol a diverse group of students and families? Is anyone else bothered by the idea of a school where essentially all the children are from the same type of background?

So, to sum up: it doesn't count as diversity if your children mix with the children of successful non-white people. The non-white children have to be poor or deprived as well.

To be fair to independent schools, there are plenty of state schools that are also pretty non-diverse. One of my relatives go to one in Somerset where everyone is white and there seems to be an enormous much-referred to divide between the mums-like-she-is and the Mums-on-benefits. She also makes reference to Daily Mail type utterances on asylum seekers etc very regularly.

I guess the fact that people often travel further for private schools means that you get those dramatic contrasts between private/state school kids in a small geographical area that OP refers to.

Manathome, do stop trying to patronise us.

She doesn't want to 'experience "foreign"'. Actually, many of us can get 'foreign' at home, and/or in the houses of our relatives. She wants her children to experience the diversity of the present-day UK. You clearly find this a bit threatening. I'm sorry that I - and incidentally I'm 48 - and my partner (who is 46) and our children - all of us are mixed race - dilute your idea of Jolly Old England. (Which has never been a single white nation, ffs, there have been black people in the UK since the Romans.)

I like that diversity. I'm part of that diversity (and no, you wouldn't know that to look at me, as I am quite white enough to pass as Jolly Old English, having inherited my father's anglo-Scandinavian colouring rather than my mother's Tamil one). I want my children to share it. The OP clearly feels the same way.

I didn't say 'successful' I said Posh. I think it is quite significant that posh types refer to International not Diverse.

Successful is certainly not the same as posh.

Abra1D - diversity is about social strata, economic, cultural, creed, political, disablity

diversity is not about colour

I have nothing against private schools - but they are what they are - they offer, in general, an amazing education, facilicites and nepotistic pool to 7% of our population - selected on intellectual ability and ability to pay of course.

Abra1d Not at all. I'm just hoping that my child can be part of a more diverse group. It's not really about who is white and rich, or who is poor and of a different race, or white and poor or rich and black it's about being in school with a variety of people who share a common idea around the importance of education.

There is plenty huge amounts tons -- wrong with the US. But the vast majority of private schools there, especially in the big cities, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Boston, work very hard at having a diverse student body. At the very top New York privates, 25% of the students receive financial assistance so that they may attend.

The schools feel that it would be wrong to have a student body that didn't reflect the socioeconomic and racial mix of the city in which they are located. Not to say that a school in Kansas might be far less diverse.

I guess I thought that part of the fees for private school and the proceeds from the endless fundraising would be used to create an opportunity for children from families who could not otherwise afford it.

We are looking for a wonderful educational experience for our DS, not insulation from "others."

the educational establishment I work at is not diverse either - it is 95% non-white, 58% FSM, 56% SEN

The schools my children go to represent the area they live in - and as such are diverse in terms of colour, creed, political affiliation, social strata, finances and ability - I believe there are great advantages to living this but the children still form their own cliques around interests / humour / intellect

Dunno about the US, but surely private schools in the UK are, fundamentally, businesses (albeit with charitable status)? Yes, they give scholarships but as far as I can see this is to pull the results up by admitting bright kids who'll do very well - and thus attract more fee-paying parents keen to send their children to schools with such manifestly good results.

The figure is actually higher for financial assistance over here, SlimSchadey. Nearly a third of UK independent schools offer bursaries. See below.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/8838238/10-tips-for-private-school-busaries.html

Sorry, link again:

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/8838238/10-tips-for-private-school-busaries.html

Oops, sorry, typed too quickly and meant to write a third of PUPILS receive bursaries, rather than a third of schools give them.

Here's a direct quotation from the article, to make it clearer than I am able to, it seems:

'Roughly one in three children at an independent school is on some form of fee ?remission? '

So that's my point (a) 'answered' then...in reality, obviously, the 'remission' is only a percentage of a quite whackingly huge sum.

Private Schools need to give bursaries to maintian their charitable status and tax breaks - just as they have to reach out to the community

they tend to be very clever about this.

Few schools offer 100% bursaries (or not many) - more like a 10 - 20% discount - but a 20% bursary on a 15-23K annual bill is still only within reach of those who have money

Activate - Yes, you have it exactly right -- they are clever about it. Giving 10% off a 20K fee is still way out of reach for most people. Someone I know, who is worth millions, has a son at a public school. He is a talented musician and was recently awarded a music scholarship. It's great for the kid that his hard work and practice is being acknowledged, but his family don't need the money. How does this help anyone, really?

Very recently, the Independent Schools Council won a court battle against the Charity Commission, who wanted them to demonstrate more public benefit in order to maintain their charitable status.

www.isc.co.uk/publication_4_0_0_26_1012.htm

The ISC fought the idea that their public benefit might be regulated, that they might have to actually do something that someone else defined as "charitable."

I guess they'll continue opening the swimming pool to the prols on alternate Leap Days.

" I'm not going to be able to change what is happening to this country, just watch my way of life being changed beyond recognition without my consent or choice!"

I know, it's terrible isn't it? I just think it's so sad the way Christmas is being banned, and I heard that hijabs are going to be made compulsory for all women next year. Oh, and you're not going to be able to buy bacon in the shops moon, better stock up!

SlimSchaday some schools, mainly senior school, do take the fees and make places available to those who would not normally be able to afford it. But prep schools often just dont have that much spare money. DS2 meets more boys from different cultures at his boarding school than DS1 does at his state comp. which is 95% white British.

I can assure you that a state comp in the OP's neck of the woods would be rather different in terms of its intake, though. We're talking SE London. Come and check out the primary schools that my children and sleepingbunny's attend and you'll see that they are equally widespread in their intake, both ethnically and socioeconomically.

SlimSchady - you're confusing a scholarship with a bursary. A scholarship does not necessarily have any monetary value at all.

Not all schools are charities in the first place.

But Dulwich College in SE London has one third of its pupils in receipt of some level of financial assistance. So it isn't just smoke and mirrors for all.

"But Dulwich College in SE London has one third of its pupils in receipt of some level of financial assistance. So it isn't just smoke and mirrors for all."

How many are 50% or more? And do they include uniform?

I looked around most of the private schools in Dulwich. Some predominantly white yes, one predominantly not, with white British being the minority. I asked the question at all schools and got the answer that it's simply down to who applies (obviously). There doesn't appear to be any discrimination on the part of the schools, those who admit on 'assessment' merely take the brightest of the applicants regardless of race. It was interesting however, that one school was predominantly from ethnic minorities - the consensus being that the school culture was stricter and better reflected that of the parents.
Having said that it does depend on what kind of diversity you want, you really aren't going to find a large social spread in a private school in my opinion.

It doesn't publish the amounts, so no-one can say either way. A lot of the uniform can be had from supermarkets, and there is a thriving second hand shop for the non-generic items.

Are you asking because you are interested in applying?

manathome your posts reek of entitlement and self-pity. You're a rich, white, middle-aged man; a member of the most privileged group on Earth.

I suggest you take your victimhood and piss off to the comments pages of the Daily Mail.

No. I'm asking because I'm fed up of private schools saying how incredibly diverse and inclusive and charitable they are because they offer bursaries, when almost invariably the bursaries are significantly less than 50% of the fees, which still precludes the vast majority of the population.

If you want to run an exclusive club for rIch people I can't stop you, but don't pretend it's anything but what it is. Letting the local primary school use the swimming pool and the fives court on the first Sunday of each Half does not a valuable local education resource make.

Sorry, scarevola, when I said "you" I didn't obviously mean "you" personally. I meant a collective "you".

SWYM.

Private schools became less diverse with the abolition of the Assisted Place scheme, and I don't think that was a good step.

But they do have a somewhat greater range of pupils than the stereotype suggests - particularly in 6th forms.