What do you look for in a school ( prep - early years)

[jabed]

DW and I are looking at schools. This is new to us and we are not really sure what we should be looking for.

DS will be 5 in August. We had him in a local school until last term but things have not been what we wanted, so we need to look around.
We know DS is bright for his age and according to his school had met all the years targets before Easter. But he is still going to be a young boy in any class he enters.

We know its easy for people to mistake him for a child much older because he has good volcabulary, is around adults a lot ( being an only child) and is tall for his age ( a gene from both sides of the family ) but we want him to have a normal childhood mixing with boys and girls his own age etc. He isnt as grown up as he may look.

We are considering home schooling but we are also looking at other school options - independent sector. He will be entering in year 1.

We are not sure what to look for when we visit. Any tips would be welcome.

Thanks

Don't really know about schools but if you're thinking about homeschooling then check out the home ed board, if you start a thread there you should get some good advice

Look for a school where the children seem happy and are polite and respectful. Good sports / music / drama facilities alongside a good art / design studio. Well equipped science labs and IT suites. Pastoral care is very important at age 5, so ask about that.

Visit as may schools as you are interested in - you will get a "feel" for what you like and what you don't.

Personally, I like to see the Head Master showing prospective parents around a school that doesn't spend too much of your fees on grand listed buildings and 50 acres of grounds, but concentrates the money on the best teachers and up to date facilities.

We discounted one school nearby where the HT delegated prospective parents to another member of staff to show around.

Look at reports for the schools you like on the Independent Schools Inspectorate website, speak to parents (if possible) who already attend.

Your DS may have to do a "taster" day - you will be able to tell when you pick him up whether he has enjoyed it and if the school think he will fit in.

I'm sure other parents will suggest more. Good luck

diabolo - you would look for all of that in a prep?

I know I would expect that in senior school ( I work in one) but prep is a strange different world to me.

I cannot put DS into my school prep because we have no room. We had lots of applicants and just dont have the space it seems.
I anticipate him going into our prep when he reaches the junior stage though.

My DW wants my son close to home until he is 7 or 8 at least. I have no objection to that. I just want a school which isnt pressuring or hot housing. I want DS to have as far as possible a care free childhood and I want to see him happy (which he wasnt in his last school). I suspect that might be a tall order but its what we ( DW and self) both want ideally.

jabed - that's what I get at my DS's school. (pre-prep and prep, he is now in Year 6, but has been there since Year 2)

Pre-prep (up to 7) and Prep (7 to 11 or 13) generally are quite pressurised environments, everyone expects the best (both parents and teachers).

Have you thought about Montessori schools if you want to take the pressure off a bit?

I have to be honest and say I am not keen on the Montessori philosophy.
But I dont think there is one near anyway.

Thanks for the input about what you have experienced in your DC's prep.

My DW favours a small prep we have been told about which is just a short drive away ( walkable on a good day , even if it would be ablut 20 mins) . The school has a Christian ethos which neither of us are concerned over. However, I have been told such schools can have odd ideas. I am visiting this school next week. I will take a good look around at the facilities.

One of the things that concerns me about pressuring is that DS is a very bright child. As " bright" parents ourselves, we experienced life differently to our peers and we are both thankful that we were not hothoused or pressured before 7. We had quite normal lives until then. I think its very important for small highly intelligent children to be well grounded and not pushed. There is plenty of time for pushing.
Thanks.

My dd's go to an independant school where reception and year 1 are really quite relaxed, the reception children are filthy when they finish, They do lots of activities during the day. (outside play, gardening, art, pottery, dancing, wildlife walks)
They start to ramp up in year 2/3.

The children mostly seem to be happy and if they aren't then the school tries to do something about it.

My dd's last school was very hot on manners and behaviour but this one is more focussed on kindness, it is very strong on anti-bullying which is very important to me.

It has small class sizes and as a result the work is highly differentiated.(dd1's class of 10 has 3-5 different sets for various subjects)

We were shown round by the registrar and then had tea with the headmaster where he outlined his very clear vision for the school.

I looked for a school where teachers showed a genuine passion for their job and were prepared to devote real time and energy into their students. I looked for a school where a range of extra-curricular activities and experiences were offered as well as exceptional academic results. I would really hate a school where all the teachers were jobsworths who would only do the minimum and would expect payment for anything extra. That would really put me off.

Thank you for that fivecandles. Do you really have to take your agenda across threads?

This is about my DS not your views on teachers.
DWIW, I am not concerned about after school activities as we would be bringing DS home as soon as the school day is over. Its quite long enough for a little boy (or even girl).

I am inclined to like what people have said about making sure the place has a good atmosphere and is well equipped and I was that relaxed feeling that Elk has spiken of. That sounds good and has gone on our list.

I dont need teachers who are passionate (smacks of hothousing and pushy to me). I want them to know their jobs and know when its over for the day. Thanks anyway. I will bear in mind to ask them ( teachers) do in their free time, so that I know they have balance in their lives and they dont live my DS's for him.

From what I keep reading here I must ask ( parents please not teachers), are my DW and self the only parents left who want to look after their own child ?

On our wish list.....
a) a school where the teachers teach and do not have to deal with other problems. I want them to know his academic standards. I want them to teach him appropriately. I do want standards of good manners and right and wrong maintained as we do at home.

b) good facilities (a point made by diabolo)

c) small classes and good differentiation of work

d) a happy relaxed atmosphere and no bullying/ hitting fighting etc. Safe

e) teachers who now how to teach.

f) A school which doesnt have loads of extra activities which DS has to do.

I want my DS to come home after school and have time with us. Schools get from 9.00 am - 4.00 pm with him - why should they need even more time?

Am I being unreasonable in that?

I would agree Jabed with most of your points. At age 5 maybe the normal school day is long enough for your son but as he get older it is beneficial to have other activities. It makes for an all rounded individual in my opinion. So when looking at these schools it is worth looking at the extra curricula activities for the future.
We would all like a school with no bullying etc but I fear they don't exist. In fact I would be very wary of any school that said they didn't have any bullying. The important question is what so they do about bullying/ their policy etc and not whether it happens.

That's a good point going

Jabed, I have an eldest child born in August and a younger one born in the Autumn (so one of the eldest in his year). I just wanted to point out to you that your feelings about school might be coloured by your ds's age. Dd (August born) had such a different school experience to ds. It is amazing how much difference a year makes at that age.

We chose a local large state school (luckily there wasn't the pressure on places then that there is now) that we felt valued the individual child but had a very big emphasis on nurturing. It has served both our children well. I honestly think that pre age 7, it is more about getting them to enjoy school and be interested in learning than actual academics.

jabed, you asked what I would look for in a school for my children. I answered. No agenda. I have had the experience of looking around schools with both of my children and have found a school which I am thrilled with and where both my children are really happy. The quality of the teaching by which I mean their ATTITUDE to children and to teaching was one of the most important factors for me and I can honestly say that whenever my children have needed extra time or attention they have had it. Obviously the attitude of teachers is essential in creating the school atmosphere and I would be really concerned if any of the teachers had given the impression that they didn't really love working with children or were desperate to get off home.

A good sign is how many teachers have their own kids at the school. I also think staff turnover is worth looking at and not just teachers but TAs. My dcs' school has a really low turnover even of TAs which is a sign of a school offering good staff satisfaction but also means the children get continuity. That's so important in the early years.

Interestingly my children are very different with one being very bright and sporty and the other lacking in confidence and needing extra support and the school has been great at catering for both of them. There's a wide range of extra-curricular activities to suit both of them but these are OPTIONAL and in the early years most take place during lunchtimes rather than after school. Speech and drama has allowed dc1 to shine while it's been helpful to improve dc2's confidence.

I've been to various open mornings usually on a Saturday and open evenings for diffierent schools and I really liked the way that for the school we chose they had activities for the children to do and addressed them rather than just the parents. Also, children were involved in showing parents and children around at each level and the children seemed happy and confident.

I was really interested in continuity and chose a school where there is progression from 3-18. One advantage of this is that the schools can share facilities and teaching expertise so the kindergarten and prep schools benefit from the swimming pool, library, sports hall and art facilities of the senior school but also they get specialist French teachers, PE teachers and music teachers from reception. If I had chosen a separate prep school I woud want to ask about where children progressed and what happened to friendship groups etc.

It's useful to talk to established parents and look at whether anything is done to involve parents in school life. Not just the PA. I was really pleased that some of the teachers gave up their time to organise a get-together for new parents and their kids during the summer holidays before they began in Reception. The kids played while the parents got to know each other and that meant starting school wasn't so daunting for either of us.

Like many preps my sons' school has small classes, good staffing levels, specialist subject teachers etc.

Some of the reasons why I chose the school are:-

a) the Head of the Pre-prep greets every child in the morning as they arrive so knows every child and every child can approach her

b)The children were involved in showing us around on the open day

c) It doesn't select for entry at 4 (but still gets good CE results in at 13)

d) Plenty of sport and good playing facilities

e) Teachers join in dressing up for world book day, events, plays etc

'We are not sure what to look for when we visit?' (first post)

and then.... (a few posts later)

our wish list

a) a school where the teachers teach and do not have to deal with other problems. I want them to know his academic standards. I want them to teach him appropriately. I do want standards of good manners and right and wrong maintained as we do at home.

b) good facilities (a point made by diabolo)

c) small classes and good differentiation of work

d) a happy relaxed atmosphere and no bullying/ hitting fighting etc. Safe

e) teachers who now how to teach.

f) A school which doesnt have loads of extra activities which DS has to do.

Surely, Jabed, you have kind of answered your own question!

I am sure in Year 1, the extra curricular activities would be optional. Surely a school cannot force a 5 year old child to do these things (please feel free to correct me, I don't have dc's at prep school).

You have a very strange way of putting things -
'schools get 9-4 with him, why should they need even more?

They don't! Nobody is forcing you. Yet some children would love to do a club after school if it interests them. It's not a bad thing really. The way you put it, it comes across as a fate worse than death!

PFB springs to mind.

*They don't! Nobody is forcing you. Yet some children would love to do a club after school if it interests them. It's not a bad thing really. The way you put it, it comes across as a fate worse than death!

PFB springs to mind.*

I dont know what PFB is short for (do I guess something rude?).

I really don?t want to debate my views. As I said earlier, I found DS was very tired and crooked when he came home from school when we had him in the local state school. We found out about some things and we took him out. We have now taken him out of school altogether. He isn?t 5 and feel we were misled or even deceived) by the school and LA when they told us he had to start school last September because they only had a once a year intake. He was barely 4 then.

If I am honest I am not pro after school activities. It?s a personal thing. My DW likes DS to be home . She is a home maker (her choice - I don?t force this before I am accused and I won?t make her go to work either). She likes to see DS home as soon as school is finished. In the summer she does things with him. He can play out in the garden or in the house. In winter she has him at home to do other things with, or most importantly just to be with us, not being busy busy busy. I think busy is over rated. Besides many parents I see really use after school activities because they need them whilst they themselves are at work and cannot pick their children up. We are not in that position.

DS does do piano but my DW teaches him informally. She is an accomplished musician and DS was interested in piano and to save the noise of plonking on ear drums she has taught him a little. He likes it but it is not going to be pushed formally. I want his young years to be carefree so he can play and be happy and not have to worry about busy busy and clubs and such.
He also rides at weekends and after school weather permitting. He has lots of things he does and likes doing now without school clubs.

If he asks for a club we would take it under consideration obviously.
But we do not need that and we do not want it to be a pressure. I know others see things differently but you, know, we all have to bring our own kids up and not other peoples (that?s my philosophy) and we do not have to ask other people like teachers or child minders, to do that for us necessarily do we? We want DS to know he has a stable loving home where he can come and be safe and do things or not as is his choice after school. You wouldn?t thank me for interfering in your choices for your DC would you?

*Surely, Jabed, you have kind of answered your own question!"
Poppyella, I may have answered my own question with that wish list but I worry as to how I actualy assess those things on a visit.

Schools are good at showing " face" . They give you the tour and give the business talk etc. but its hard to know what is underneath exactly. I know I work in an independent senior school. It is a business after all.

People say they want good teachers ( so do I) but I wonder how we actually recognise that. According to some a good teacher is one who is into out of school and after school activities with the children and someone who in my view never seems to switch off. Well I dont see that as a good teacher .

Good facilities is easy. I guess happy relaxed kids at 5 or 6 is spottable. but the others?

Jabed, with respect, I really have to wonder why you are posting on a site like this. You are clearly not interested in views that challenge your own rather unconventional ideas about schooling.

You ask people what you should be looking for in a school for your son and then accuse people who are taking the time to respond of 'interfering'. Can you see how this is a rather strange position to take?

You also say 'I really don?t want to debate my views' and yet, you must see that your views are unconventional and that debating is really the raison d'etre of sites like these??

I do have to agree that your son would be better off at home since it's hard to understand how any school could meet your rather contradictory and unusual requirements. PFB means 'precious first born'.

I also think you may need to explore why you are arguing that extra-curricular activities and teachers who are willing to devote extra attention to their pupils over and beyond the hours which they are paid for as A BAD THING. Surely, you realize that most parents see these things as positive and, in fact, often come on this site and others and visit schools in person to request MORE ATTENTION for their children and a wider range of extra-curricular activities.

Either you really believe these things to be bad in which case you are probably alone on this site and in a minority generally in these views or you are saying this to justify your own unwillingness to devote additional time and provide extra-curricular activities to your own students as indicated in other threads. Perhaps you have dug yourself into a corner because of comments you've made on other threads and now find yourself arguing a position that you don't really agree with yourself?

Some of the things you say also continue to make me wonder whether you really do have the experience of teaching that you say you have. You don't seem to really understand the concept of extra-curricular activities at all, for example. As Poppyella has said, extra-curricular activities are OPTIONAL. No child is forced into doing activities he or she doesn't want to do. It's also strange that you argue you would rather have your child at home and don't approve of extra-curricular activities but your son plays the piano and rides.

My children have piano lessons amonst other activities AT SCHOOL during the normal school day as one of several extra-curricular activities. Dc2 is still in kindergarten where almost all of the extra-curricular activities are at lunchtime. I find that the fact that they manage to fit so much into the normal school day means that they are less tired and have more time to spend with us at home which is one of your concerns (that I share). Dc1, however is in prep school approaching secondary school age and is now keen and able to take part in activities after school as well as during the school day. This is HER CHOICE and since she is sporty and confident extra-curricular activities have been really beneficial for her such that she is now competing in various sports at town level and is developing her skills and confidence further.

As others have said to you, it is a good idea to look at the long-term when choosing a school for your child as his needs will change. While you understandably consider extra-curricular activities too much for him now (except the piano and riding) you may find that you and he change very quickly and it will be much more time consuming and tiring to be taking him from one activiity to another if none are provided by your choice of school. Even if your son never decides to pursue extra-curricular activiites it is certainly strange to be put off by schools that offer this which is what you imply. If a school offers a lot of activities it's often a sign that they really care about developing the children as whole people and is likely to be a sign of really committed teachers (something I think you're ambivalent about but most people consider to be a positive thing).

You also said,
'Besides many parents I see really use after school activities because they need them whilst they themselves are at work and cannot pick their children up.'

Maybe this is your experience but it is not mine. The extra-curricular activities my children do are considered by them, by me and by their teachers to be valuable. They range from taking part in orchestras and choir to speech and drama (which leads to LAMDA exams) and netball. I am able to pick my children up from school but THEY make the choice about which activities to pursue.

'People say they want good teachers ( so do I) but I wonder how we actually recognise that.'

Jabed, you ARE a teacher or so you say. Don't you have any insight at all? If the teachers seem confident and committed and knowledgeable and the children are likewise, this is a good sign.

It is a good idea to read the latest OFSTED or ICSI report.

Many good schools will have an open morning or evening where you are offered a tour and a chance to look around. It's a good sign if the pupils are involved in this, for example, as guides or putting on gym displays or playing music. You should be able to see examples of pupils' work. You could even ask to see examples of text books, reading schemes, schemes of work. In addition, schools will have a day when you can see the school at work or you could phone to arrange one. Finally, a good school should let your child experience a taster day when he could join the class he will join even if it's for a morning or afternoon. I would be concerned about any school which did not allow you to do all 3 of these things even if they didn't offer all 3 routinely.

Look at the school website. My dcs' school website gives you a good idea of the sort of activities that go on from week to week. The school diary with parents evenings etc is published on the website. There are also little articles from the children themselves for example about trips they've been on.

I would think that all of this combined would give you a pretty good picture of whether your child will be happy at the school.

And as is really quite obvious from the responses to this thread - different parents prioritise different things from a school. You will get a much better idea by engaging with the schools themselves rather than asking what other people think on a site like this.

*Jabed, with respect, I really have to wonder why you are posting on a site like this. You are clearly not interested in views that challenge your own rather unconventional ideas about schooling.

You ask people what you should be looking for in a school for your son and then accuse people who are taking the time to respond of 'interfering'. Can you see how this is a rather strange position to take?*

Yellowcandles, do I really need to read an essay on this? I have taken on a number of views here. I am very interested in what others have said ( Elk, diablo and poppy amongst others. I wouldnt read their comments if I wasnt interested. I may be unconventional ( the worlkd takes all sorts doesnt it?) but I am not closed.

What I think you mean is I am not listening to your views - and is that any wonder the way you have pressed them on me and said exactly what you think of me personally elsewhere? Even though you do not know me?

I really would like to hear what other people think. Thank you.

You ask people what you should be looking for in a school for your son and then accuse people who are taking the time to respond of 'interfering'. Can you see how this is a rather strange position to take?

I havent said that at all. That is what you are saying about me yellowcandles.

You also say 'I really don?t want to debate my views' and yet, you must see that your views are unconventional and that debating is really the raison d'etre of sites like these??

Is it really? I was looking for advice and other views , not to expound my own. I want to know what others think ( I know what you think yellowcandles). I asked a question . I didnt ask for a debate, just what people look for in their own experience , so I can make my own list up and know what I am looking for myself.

I value all those who have responded and thank them for their input. I dont want to debate. Just what others look for.

Jabed, you said 'I really would like to hear what other people think' and also 'I really don?t want to debate my views'.

You want to hear what people think as long as they agree with YOU and I'm not sure that anybody actually does. When poppy took the time to respond to your OP you said she was 'interfering'.

Perhaps you should think about what you really are doing on this site?

I do have to agree that your son would be better off at home since it's hard to understand how any school could meet your rather contradictory and unusual requirements. PFB means 'precious first born'.

Yes, DS is precious to me. Isnt every child to every parent?

Sorry, I will answer my own question there - no of course not all children are precious. Some people do abuse, but I would expect that people here do care and do see their children as precious.

I think it as much about you feeling comfortable that your share the ethos and values being expounded as facilities, curriculum etc . The Early Years curriculum will be the same but some will follow NC after that , others not. To have met the targets already is not in itself exceotional and the measures are not so consistent that he would meet the assessment in another school. On what basis did you choose his present school, identify are the specific shortcomings that you are looking to address by moving and ask each what they may do differently. Surely if you work in the independent sector yourself you have some contacts and grapevine knowledge of which ones may suit you, your dw and ds, and be able to see beyond the rhetoric and marketing ? However most good schools would already be full for September.