Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

religion/evangelising in school - just don't read if you're an evangelist, please

158 replies

geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 09:16

Hello all,

I've posted about this before - ages ago - I don't know what to do really but just need to get it off my chest.
I (mostly) love the community primary school my daughters go to. Dd2 has just started, she's got various SN and the school are getting it completely right with her. Dd1 is in yr2 and extremely happy and doing very well. It's a lovely school all-round.

However, there is a very very strong religious influence, probably from the head, though I am not sure. They have a local methodist preacher, who is extremely evangelical, taking assembly at least once a week. Dd2 always comes home singing hymns - lately it's the Lord's Prayer in musical form .

I stayed away from this year's harvest festival as last year's just made me so cross - the children were made to pray with their hands together and heads down, all the songs they sung were very religious in nature etc.

They pray so many times a day - it makes me so cross. In the morning at assembly, before lunch, and then again at the end of the school day. This is not even a church school FFS!!!!

I have complained to the head and was palmed off with daily worship being a legal requirement.

I don't know what to do, I don't want to start an argument because they really go out of their way with dd2 and do much more with her and for her than the average school would, but this religious business is bugging me so, so much.

I'm actually a school governor, but have only started recently and I don't want to bring my own personal grievances into the role, IYKWIM.

I guess the answer is to put up and shut up. I don't want to remove the dds from assemblies, as it wouldn't be fair on them and besides, there's lots of other stuff going on in assemblies. I draw the line at outings to church services and have withdrawn dd1 from this in the past.

There's no problem with RE, it's taught well and in a very open way that is respectful of diversity.

OP posts:
daisy1999 · 04/11/2005 10:23

yes it's fine to tell your child what you beleive but NOT fine to tell them what they should beleive

aloha · 04/11/2005 10:25

Daisy - you clearly think praying is a good thing though. There are plenty of us who think it is a bad thing. I don't want schools to indoctrinate my children about something that you can easily do at home.
As for 'dreadful' and 'shocking' - um, do you think that about people who take their kids to church, where they are most definitely told there is a god?
Or about parents who tell their kids that there are no such things as monsters? Or witches? Or dragons?

aloha · 04/11/2005 10:26

Daisy the world is absolutely full of people who tell their children what to believe! All the people who take their kids to church/synagogue/mosque/temple for a start. And those who pray at home.
it is no different.

weesaidie · 04/11/2005 10:28

Well I don't really think it is a big deal. Many many parents bring their children up saying their is a god and many tell them their isn't. Most decide for themselves when they ar older.

My dad was a Christian (as he was taught to be) until he was 18 until he decided for himself.

I could have gone either way with one Catholic and one atheiest parent.

I certainly would tell my dd what I believed to be fact.

daisy1999 · 04/11/2005 10:28

yes I do think it's wrong to be told there is definately a god. I think you'd be surprised by my personal veiws on religion ( but I'm not going to share them with you).
I am all for children making their own minds up and in the meantime I have no problem with them praying at school.
If it doesn't bother the children then I think this a load of fuss about nothing

weesaidie · 04/11/2005 10:29

Exactly Aloha.

Original poster
geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 10:29

well said, aloha - I also tell my children that there is no god, I do this with the same conviction with which I tell them that there are no sharks in the stream by our house, and no ghosts hiding under their beds. Of course I cannot rule out either of these with a 100% certainty - but 99.99999999% is good enough in this case, whether it's about a god or a shark.

OP posts:
scotlou · 04/11/2005 10:31

It sounds very similar to my ds's school (non-Church state primary). Prayer morning and lunchtime, religious assembly weekly - often with the local minister)
I've approached the head and she says they do not have to pray - just have to sit quietly with their eyes closed. She's also offered to give him something else to do (help in office etc) during prayer time. The bit that grated with me was when ds came home all excited because "miss X.'s church group came to school today and we had a quiz about God and my team won" !!
No real advice though.

Original poster
geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 10:31

but praying would surely be a totally pointless exercise if the person doing it didn't believe in god? So praying tells the child directly that there is a god, in which case daisy children who are made to pray are told that there is a god.

OP posts:
nerdgirl · 04/11/2005 10:31

But the question for Geekgrrl is "What do you want to happen?" If you can't get the praying to stop are you prepared to leave the school?

weesaidie · 04/11/2005 10:33

Why can't they just pray at home? Grrr

Original poster
geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 10:33

scotlou, did you take her up on the offer of withdrawing your ds from prayer time? I'm starting to think I might withdraw the dds from the weekly session with that evangelising minister. But it doesn't seem fair on them.

OP posts:
Original poster
geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 10:35

no nerdgirl, I wouldn't... it ticks all the boxes in every other aspect. I think I just need to vent! It was the shoebox appeal that's pushed me over the edge this time (there's a thread explaining the ethical problems with it in 'other subjects').

OP posts:
aloha · 04/11/2005 10:35

Yes, telling children to pray to God is telling them that God exists.
I think complain through the proper channels first before thinking about extreme measures such as removing a child from school.

aloha · 04/11/2005 10:40

And I understand the need to vent!

daisy1999 · 04/11/2005 10:42

I assume gg that you haven't had your children christened

Original poster
geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 10:57

thay is a fair assumption, daisy.
neither dh nor I have christened, and we have both been raised as atheists, so no, our children have not been christened, either.

OP posts:
Original poster
geekgrrl · 04/11/2005 10:58

that even.

OP posts:
weesaidie · 04/11/2005 11:05

Ha ha, imagine complaining about your child having to say prayers and then admit you have had them christened!

No rampant hypocracy here either!

weesaidie · 04/11/2005 11:06

sorry, hypocrisy

scotlou · 04/11/2005 11:08

geekgrrl - no, I've not taken her up on it yet - but still considering it. What gets me and dh is that people think kids saying prayers etc is not a problem as "everyone does it at school" "it doesn't mean anything" etc. WHY DO IT THEN!

SleepyJess · 04/11/2005 11:12

I'm not an evangelist.. but seriously.. your child will not come to any harm by singing the Lord's prayer.. there are so many genuinely -ing things in life to about!

Why are people so anti 'happy clappy'? Is it because it makes them uncomfortable, seeing others express their faith openly and with enjoyment? The children just see it as singing/music at that age anyway.. something fun, to be enjoyed..

If this is the only problem you have with the school then IMO it's not much of a problem really. No one is asking you to become an evangalist and start singing the Lord's prayer over breakfast after all

aloha · 04/11/2005 11:12

I feel like suggesting they have a nice black mass for the kids instead!

weesaidie · 04/11/2005 11:14

Well I don't think it will scar children but I certainly don't think you should have to do it if you don't believe. Whether it is all nice and happy or not. (And a lot of religious teachings are not)

I doubt most Christian parents would be happy if their child had to read from the Koran every morning or similar.

aloha · 04/11/2005 11:20

Sleepyjess - so why do I think it is wrong?
1 Because I think religion is immoral. Homophobic, mysoginistic, oppressive & opposed to many of the values I hold most dear.
2 Because I loathe all superstition. I also, for example, will tell my children that horoscopes are nonsense.
3 Because I don't like the idea of schools teaching my children that superstition is fact. I don't want to contradict my children's teachers and I don't want them to contradict me.
4 For the same reason as I imagine you would not like your chidren's school to teach your children that horoscopes are absolutely true, and that they should read them every day and follow their teachings or, when they die, they will go to hell and suffer eternal torment!