4yr Olds to sign contracts - Anyone else disagree?

[Chiccadum]

My eldest has just started school and is in the foundation stage.

She came home with a letter the other day stating that both myself and her HAVE to sign it.

It basically says that she has not to run in school, talk quietly, not damage school property, be helpful and kind, all the things that I have taught her way before school was even thought of.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that it is inappropriate for a child of 4 to have to sign something when they can't read and really understand what they are signing and also when they can't even sign their own name.

Does anyone elses school do this as my daughters school says they have to be signed by law.

seudonim, you have deliberately misquoted me in order to spout a load of rubbish - and why get so petty with codswallop after she extended an olive branch ? you obviously have lovely schools in Scotland with no trouble at all - great, good luck to you. But I am telling you that I don't tolerate 13 year old girls dressed like Christina Aguilera or some other porn starlet in my classroom. And it's not because |I don't respect them, as you assert - it's because I want them to RESPECT THEMSELVES.I am not talking about a bit of thigh or a flash of bra, I am talking about skirts literally on the rim of their arse with thigh high socks, huge heels and masses of cleavage, plus the make up and jewellery.I would rather they contribute to the school in ways other than trying to show their genitalia and cop off with the male teachers, who are terrified of them and as I think hmb pointed out cannot be in a room alone with them.I would rather encourage them to leave this sort ofthing until later in life, or at least outside school, and to try and make the most of the education they are being offered.Now do you understand, or shall I run through this very complicated issue one more time, just for you ?

I think that it would be a good idea if we all calmed down, please....

Re the sexy dress issue. A lot of people have said that teenage kids will always push the limits. I agree, this is normal teenage behaviour. I point that donnie and I have both made is that some girls take this much further. This is not 'innocent' trying out of their sexuality. This is a calculated attempt to pull a bloke. Now you have to ask yourself this, is this what we want to happen during school time. Because I can assure you it doesn't help anyone in the class to concentrate

And although I would never say that a woman's dress means 'she was asking for it' you have to remember that some of these girls are dressing to attract boys of 16-18. Some male members of staff are only 21. They must always act with great professionalism, but surly you must agree that what is sexually stimulating to an 18 year old will have the same effect on any 21 year old male with a pulse. Is that the sort of working environment we want to engender in out schools? That sort of dress would not be OK for shop work, or office work, why should kids get away with it in school?

Well, that was a good tempered addition to the debate.
Batters, that sounds like an excellent school From what I see of European schools there does seem to be a strong dress down ethos, as there does at university. I wonder if uniform actually encourages this sort of dressing up in a desperate bid for individuality.

Also, I don't see the connection between uniform and reasonable dress. I think the fact that so many men find school uniforms sexually exciting might in these terms be a good reason to remove it, especially for 16+.

Suedonim, I would be worried about a male headmaster wanting to make rules about girls underwear, I truly would.

We don't have uniform for the 16+ students. They are expected to wear smart 'office dress'. Boys have to wear jacket and tie and the girls have to wear 'equvalent' standard of dress. Basicaly they are expected to wear the same sort of standard as the staff.

A different point but does anyone know what the law is regarding piercings? Is there a legal minimum ago for eyebrows etc? I ask as we have a lot of 14 year olds with eyebrows done. They have to wear a pastic staple sort of thing while they are in school as uniform stipulates 1 pair of earings only. Those plastic things make me wince when I see them. They look so painful.

I have to laugh because it's been many, many years since I worked in an office where the men had to wear jacket and tie. My dh goes to work in shorts and trainers nearly every day - he walks there and back. I remember the relief of getting to sixth form college and wearing jeans and t-shirts. I don't think it made me behave any worse.

I was a teacher at a retake college and we could wear jeans (oh the relief- we were a scruffy bunch- did well in the league tables though).

I remember at school (girls) being made to walk up some big steps in the hall to see if our skirts were too tight (they were meant to be A line). Some girls had to change theirs. Didn't stop them changing into short tight skirts before going down to the boys school though.

And Suedonim's headmaster does sound petty and over the top. There are a lot of petty rules at school- one reason why I've always said I could never teach in a a "proper" school.

FWIW I quite like the primary school uniforms though. Polo shirt and sweatshirt seems fine to me. I've found it cheap as well.

ow hmb! No idea whether there's a minimum age- wouldn't have thought so.

Quite frankly, Donnie, I don't know what you are on about! I haven't misquoted you, your words 'wannabe prostitutes' (which is what I assume you are referring to) is clear for all to see in your post of 24 September, 2003 1:50:38 PM. Also, as far as I am aware, Codswallop and I have no argument and I've no idea where or why she should have offered me an olive branch.

As the parent of two children in their 20's and one of 16, I think I am allowed to voice my experiences and opinions on this subject, even if they are not the same as yours, without being subject to the sort of intemperate tirade you have just posted.

That should read 'words are' before I picked up for bad grammar .

Aloha, yes, I had thought about the schoolgirl uniform appealing to men aspect, as well.

I like the uniform because it stops (or at any rate reduces) the amount of competition about who can go to school wearing the most expensive designer stuff. They already seems to spend a masive amount of time getting ready for school, with full face makeup and the most amazing hair styles! I think if they had to pick out a coordinated , designer wardrobe at the same time some of them would never get to school

The sexy stuff isn't related to uniform or not uniform. I think that they are two different issues.

In genereal they are lots of studies thaht show that a uniform does have a positive effect on students and their behaviour.

On a positive note I had a sixth former working with me today as a mentor to some year 8 kids. What a great lad! And the behaviour of the boys improved no end.

LOl suedonim. Sorry was a little tired and irritable in the last few days.

Fairymum - I am talking of secondary school here not 7 year olds. And, yes, you would think girls of that age could cover themselves but that is often not the case as their skirts are so short!

jimjams the comprehensive I went too you had to kneel down to see whether your hem touched the floor, if it didnt you had to change it! I cant beleive it when I see some of the girls going up to our local high school they look like Brittany Spears - whoever she is

Suedonim & Cods fighting? I didn't see it. What a bizarre thing to say!

me tetchy.

Nos suedonim got wrong end of the stick I think. Cant be bothered to re hash it all. Lets all go to the pub.

Absolutely no need to apologise to me, Coddie (if I may address you so informally??), cos I wasn't aware you'd done anything to apologise for - unless it was so subtle I've missed it. I'll join you down the pub - cheers!

Batters, I love your path of passive resistance! Yes, if you're not going to do something, why query it or announce it, just don't do it! Best form of anarchy, I think I'll try this non-action technique in future!

hmb, I always understood that the minimum age for body piercing was 18- same as tattoos. (That's what we've told DD anyway... )

ours are at 3 different schools & 2 of the schools do not allow anything but pierced ears, and then lobe only. The rules are very specific & they can't wear plasters over them. I think the penalty is expulsion, or whatever they are calling it now. They are grammar schools & the argument is "if you don't want to abide by our rules go somewhere else". Similarly, I have a feeling that if you refuse to sign the contract you don't get a place (I could be wrong but the threat was certainly there, & that was the High school, which is oversubscribed).