4yr Olds to sign contracts - Anyone else disagree?

[Chiccadum]

My eldest has just started school and is in the foundation stage.

She came home with a letter the other day stating that both myself and her HAVE to sign it.

It basically says that she has not to run in school, talk quietly, not damage school property, be helpful and kind, all the things that I have taught her way before school was even thought of.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that it is inappropriate for a child of 4 to have to sign something when they can't read and really understand what they are signing and also when they can't even sign their own name.

Does anyone elses school do this as my daughters school says they have to be signed by law.

PS My dd was told not to wear a long-sleeved top beneath an ordinary blouse (she was cold). That isn't exactly revealing yourself - covering up is more like it!!

If that was our school I would also expect them to come around and nurse my dd when she got a cold or flu from being too cold.....

Codswallop, what are you on about, where have I said that we could not afford to go on holiday, I said that we couldn't go when we wanted and we can't go away as in hubbys contract says on his days off he can be called in at any time. So therefore we can only go on his set shifts which do happen to sometimes fall term time. Also, if you taught like you come across, thank goodness your not teaching my kids.

Thanks Talullah

i think the letter thing is o.k really! At the end of the day it could be used to "remind" the child about his/her promise of good behaviour and sets the boundaries! I don't think it would be THAT serious for the school either, it's probably more of a gesture to let the child know whats expected in a school. If someone made my dd sit and watch other kids eating though and took away her food id be FURIOUS! It's so easy to forget about the little peoples feelings.

I agree that girls should be treated with respect, and I would never, never say that a girl 'lead on' a rapist. However the girls I am talking about are far from 'innocently' sexy. I see that sort of dress too, and can see it for what it is.

What I am talking about is wearing black bras under transparent shirts that are so tight they are almost literally bursting off, with buttons undone to well below the cleavage line. I'm not talking about bootleg trousers vs. ordinary. Some of these girls do dress like prostetutes, given the chance. One of the girls, a 14 year old was suspended for propositioning a workman (in his 20s) on the school site. He had the great sense to report this to a member of staff. This girl was not above doing the same to male members of staff, who had to be very careful not to be alone with her at any time. The male members of staff should always act with the greatest professional standards in mind, but it helps to remember that some of them are 21, and some of these girls are 16. Not an excuse, but an important observation.

I wish that it was just innocent 'pushing' of the limits, but sometime, sadly these children are far from innocent

Hmb, I have never seen or heard of any pupils dressing like that at dd's school (maybe cos it's too cold in Scotland for transparent, unbuttoned tops!!). That is why I think the school is being too harsh on children who aren't really doing anything outrageous. We all know that to ban something is a sure-fire way to make it desirable and attractive, and that is what is likely to happen here. FWIW, I do support the wearing of uniform, in general. I don't support clamping down unnecessarily on people who are legally old enough to work, smoke, marry, have sex or (heaven forbid) a baby.

Thank goodness I HE as this whole idea of heads dictating when you can holiday and what you can feed your child would drive me nuts.
I'm sorry but untill teachers and heads sign contracts to treat every child as an individual I honestly think that all these contracts etc. are pointless.I have no sympathy for teachers after being treated badly in school myself and then being told my son then 3 was backwards and trouble.The reason I feel angry at my sons teacher is that she informed my son that 3yr olds should not read or write which he could it took three yrs to correct this,also it turned out that she had called him a trouble maker because a child splashed him in the bathroom where there was a see through panel so that teachers could stop this from happening.Teachers in many schools feel that they know the children better than the parents which is obv not true.These contracts invariably are an excuse to only blame parents and as for the other school decisions I have to agree with a comment made further down Nanny State.

I once lived in Scotland and I know what you mean about the cold wind

I agree that if you make a rule they try to break it, and that is , in a way part of the game.

For example I insist that they are properly dressed when they enter and leave my lessons. But I don't realy care if they unbutton their top button and untuck their shirts. Natch I make them think that I do, and so they have 'won', when in fact, it doen't worry me at all. If they thought that didn't matter, they would try to do something worse! All part of the game.

But some of the girls do try to get away with amazingly provocative dress. And these are under 16s. Over 16 they don't wear uniform, just smart office dress.

hey chicca dum - I would have taught them the diference between "your" and "you are" though

Donnie - I do know what you mean about uniform. I work in a secondary school in Doncaster. This is something that bugs me. At the school I work at unifrm looks a mess and little is done about it. Ties are half way down their chest, half done up and really short. Shirts are never tucked in, blazers are often discarded, trainers instead of proper shoes, and some of the girl's skirts are embarassing, especially for a male teacher. Don't forget if a young girl is sat down on the floor (like in assemblies) then that poor teacher ends up looking at a sea of girl's pants - it must be truely horrid for them (and I do mean that)!

I always push kids on uniform. I think if you get the small thinsgs right then the pupils know where they stand. If they can't get away with flaunting smaller rules then they definitely no that the big ones must be adhered to. Our school is now, after comments from inspectors, trying to get this right.

Besides a uniform can look so much better. It gives the school an identity which pupils ought to learn to be proud of. Sadly this does seem lacking at the moment (in this school I am at at least).

BTW, my last school - very successful one in Derby - had a very smart uniform and the pupils respected it. In fact, it was the uniform always used on Peak Practise; and often th pupils from the school too!

Codswallop, I'd wind my neck in if I were you

shall we call truce? I cant be arsed to fall out. too tired.

Codswallop if you want to be picky about spelling and punctuation then I suggest you look at the posting that you have recently made, after all you were supposed to be a teacher. Hope it wasn't English or Social Studies.

OH forget it then.

Suedonim - I don't think it is unreasonable to ask girls to wear decent length skirts and underwear for school. As I said before pupils of all ages are often asked to sit on the floor, either for an assembly or, with older ones, maybe a quick meeting. When skirts are short then I am afraid all the teacher at the front gets is just a view of underwear. It has absolutely nothing to do with a male teacher controlling themselves - it is just ensuring the girls look decent, and often some don't. I would hate it. A male teahcer would feel more uncomfortable no doubt as we teahcers have to be so careful nowadays to avoid anything that could even be possibly construed to be 'wrong'.

As we've moved onto uniform I will say that the school I went to was very strict, even to the point of hair dye! The uniform was respected and worn with pride because of this.

For example:
Skrits had to be knee length or calf length (although tightness was never mentioned ). Skirts were checked weekly after assembly, we all had to kneel on the floor and our skirts should touch the floor.

Black bras under white shirts - never a problem.

Ties - certain people tried to retie the tie but this was soon stamped out with constant retieing (sp) supervised by various staff.

Hair dye - a natural colour or you could be suspended.

The rules were longer than that but out of the 2 schools in the area the school I attended got the better (by far) GCSE results and had less trouble with children breaking rules.

We all had a sense of achievement in attending our school and it was highlighted by our uniform. A school that maintains high levels of dress code ensure that the bigger (more important) rules are followed imo.

my school was very strist about pulling your socks up! We'd all get into the back lane and carefully ruffle them round our ankles.well it was the eighties

Forget what

Batters - I truely don't think that at all. But I do think that school children should wear uniform that keeps them covered up, especially when sitting down crossed legs on the floor. Just for plain decency really. Does anyone really want their child's undies on show every morning?

I think girls are more than capable of making sure their underwear are covered in assembly. If a 7 year old flashes her knickers by accident, so what????

Jenie my dd's school is similar to yours. Very strict on uniform and hair.

My dd's school shoe broke and I had to write a note that she was wearing trainers for the day until I went to the shops.If there was no note she would of got detention.
They have to wear knee length skirts or trousers and this is an all girls school.

I can understand all the various points on the uniform issue you have all raised but teenagers will always push the boundaries ( than god they do, we were all rebellious once) and if the way they dress is not acceptable or uncomfortable towards male staff surely the school can enforce the uniform rule ie detention, send them home etc. until it is school standard.

But, but, but.....the children at dd's school already conform pretty much to the dress code etc, Cnr! And the school has consistently been in the top five in Scottish league tables, and usually in the top three, for all the years we have lived here. That's why I think the new attitude is too dictatorial and critical. It's sending a message to the students that whatever they do, it's not good enough; and surely with our own children we know that praise, not a negative response, is the way to get results?

Hmb, I think the idea of older students wearing office dress is excellent and would solve a lot of the problems with this issue. It gives the children a bit of autonomy and encourages responsibilty at an age when they are semi-adults.

European schools seem to manage to produce well educated, responsible citizens without uniform, don't they? So why can't we. I dislike uniforms of all kinds, and think they are ridiculous for 16plus kids who don't have to be at school at all.

I dislike it too really - but if they are going to have it i prefer it is adhered to, either do it properly or dont bother IMO