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Original poster

How are faith schools funded?

122 replies

Rosebud05 · 01/04/2011 20:55

Does anyone know? Is it all through the church/synagogue/mosque etc or some through central government funding? Or a mixture of both?

Am I right in thinking that the teachers in faith schools don't have to hold the faith of the school?

OP posts:
Ihavewelliesbuttheyrenotgreen · 01/04/2011 21:06

I went a faith school that was jointly funded by the council and churches (I think this was done through the diocise sp, which is the group of churches in the area). I think this is common for state church schools, while private faith schools are funded differently. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will be along Smile

Oh and at my school teachers did not have to hold the faith of the school but it was preferred (this is was it said on job adverts I think). Most (over 50 % I would say) were not Christian. This may have changed as laws regarding equality and advertising for certain characteristics in job ads have changed (I think)

Sorry quite vague Smile

admission · 01/04/2011 21:11

The funding for a faith school is on exactly the same basis as for a community school in the same Local Authority.
Where there is a difference is in the way that capital projects are funded when it is usual for the school to be contributing 10% in faith schools.

Oakmaiden · 01/04/2011 21:11

Faith schools are predominately funded by the council - the church does provide finances to the school, but it is not necessarily a large amount of money.

My understanding is that faith schools are allowed to specify that staff should be "sympathetic" to the faith of the school, but cannot actually insist they are members of the faith. Obviously nothing proves your sympathy towards the faith so well as regular attendance at a place of worship....

meditrina · 01/04/2011 21:15

If they're Voluntary Aided, then 10% from the religious establishment (typically these are the older church schools which antedated the setting up of the state system, and the church owns the real estate).

pudding25 · 01/04/2011 21:16

Jewish state schools are funded by the council then the parents give a voluntary contribution which pays for the Jewish Studies/Hebrew Education. They also take non-Jewish teachers.

applecakesarenice · 01/04/2011 21:26

As pudding25 says but the voluntary contributions are far from voluntary and are several hundred pounds per child per term. It currently costs me approx £1100 per term to send 2 children to a state faith school.

Pinkcushion · 01/04/2011 21:36

Sounds like an excellent way to keep out those annoying poor kids with their horrible disinterested parents! I love faith schools - they always seem so erm..moral. Hmm

Ihavewelliesbuttheyrenotgreen · 01/04/2011 21:50

In fairness Pinkcushion I went to a faith school with 'poor kids with disinterested parents'. Granted they were not in the majority but in the area in which the school was it was never going to be exclusively middle-class. On the other hand I know many people of faith who share your sentiments on faith schools and would never dream of sending their children to one.

Pinkcushion · 01/04/2011 21:58

Our local faith school won't take kids from a special needs background - they tell parents that their children wouldn't be well catered for at their school and they'd be better looking elsewhere - wouldn't Jesus be proud of their ethos and their excellent exam results?

I'm sure he would share their joy and approach that it's best to concentrate on children who can help you gain a higher place on league tables.

Original poster
Rosebud05 · 01/04/2011 23:26

Really, applecakes? Goodness. Is that much the norm?

What happens if parents can't/won't pay?

OP posts:
Original poster
Rosebud05 · 01/04/2011 23:26

Really, applecakes? Goodness. Is that much the norm?

What happens if parents can't/won't pay?

OP posts:
zanzibarmum · 01/04/2011 23:30

Pinkcushion - you should name the faith school that you are referring to. If true that would be outrageous; I am not convinced because your reference to "annoying poor Kids" is simply so wide of the mark as to be incredible.

Pinkcushion · 01/04/2011 23:56

It does serve the prividged because it's criteria relate to distance and house prices close to the school are hugely inflated. It is known among families of special needs kids that this school if offically cannot refuse them - they are certainly not catered for - and the school point them in the direction of a non faith state school that can.

I feel faith schools are immoral - if their God exists they will face the music, they will be harshly judged and rightly so - unfortunately given I am atheist I I feel they will escape without punishment - but I am hugely curious about their very dubious, morally suspect, selective process of obtaining students. Surely a faith school should not select students on distance from school - they should be selected by lottery not by postcode - if their education is superior let them select ethically and let the poor and non christians have an equal opportunity of hearing about the wonder of Jesus.

Pinkcushion · 01/04/2011 23:58

I love that you don't believe it ZanzibarMum - I am glad it's shocking - in our town it's seen as normal - faith schools are good and whatever they decide is OK - it's endorsed by Jesus isn't it?

meditrina · 02/04/2011 00:02

Your town sounds unusual to me. The CofE schools around here all have a mix of faith and community places, and are typical in terms of proportion on FSM.

mamatomany · 02/04/2011 00:04

Our local C of E school has to raise £10,000 per year and 25% of any building work.
You did permanently have your hand in your pocket to the point that I am not exaggerating when I say I didn't notice much difference when we left for private school.

NonnoMum · 02/04/2011 00:07

Faith schools originated from way back when... When factory owners were interested in simply sending kids out to work/up chimneys/t'mill, some men and women of faith thoguht there must be a better way, and strangley, started schools for these urchins...

The church owned the land/buildings etc that were provided and are still trying their best to educate children...

When the state suddenly decided it might be a good idea to give the poor some lessons, they found the church had got there first...

Lots of well-meaning people from various denominations still keep contributing to these schools (although the state has a got a bit more involved now) and hence faith schools are still around...

I"m simplifying...

Pinkcushion · 02/04/2011 00:12

No community spaces are available in any of our faith schools - either for primary or secondary. Our local Christian primary would take a hindu child from 500 miles away before they would take the child of an atheist who lived next door to them.

My children are discriminated against due to my lack of faith - Jesus would be proud wouldn't he?

Original poster
Rosebud05 · 02/04/2011 09:11

i understand the history of church school in the UK but, yes, do struggle to see the place of them in contempory society. Though, tbh, I don't know much about practising religion as I don't.

Does anyone know what happens to children whose families can't/won't pay these extra sums?

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KnittingRocks · 02/04/2011 09:17

Pinkcushion, your experience is very far from unusual sadly and I
surprised so many people don't recognise this picture as it's v common. That's why faith schools get such good results - not rocket science is it?

meditrina · 02/04/2011 09:33

CofE has, for its newer schools (and the vast majority of all its schools) a minimum of 25% community places, and most have 50%. VC and new CofE academies are community schools. They do reflect the communities where they stand; impact of leafy/tough areas in line with all schools and nationally the FSM proportion is the same as for all schools.

There are some older schools which have yet to change to the recommended numbers of community places, but these are very few, which us why it seems atypical to find a cluster of these.

Though of course the posters might be referring to schools of denominations or religions, and I know less about their entrance criteria and typical population.

starlady · 02/04/2011 14:17

I send my child to a faith school and it certainly isn't funded in the way applecakes school is. We are NEVER asked for contributions - although there is a PTA for fundraising. The church owns the building though, and the 10% is taken from collections in mass.

It's usual to be church-going, yes. But there is a little boy who's muslim going too.

We are an inner London school - and have plenty of Sri Lankan, African, South American, West Indian, Polish kids there.

Lots of nice families - but by this I absolutely don't mean all rich - ie some very poor.

Think it's quite amusing the way people get so pissed off about the whole thing. In the 70's/ 80's no-one wanted us 'immigrants' - mostly Irish - who went to RC schools. Then, despite our parents being poor, we actually did quite well for ourselves, and people get resentful.

This link is interesting:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/oct/12/nick-clegg-catholic-school-row?INTCMP=SRCH

Pinkcushion · 02/04/2011 15:23

Just to be clear - I'm not resentful of someone else's success - I'm resentful that my children are descriminated against when applying for state school based on my religion - or lack of.

starlady · 02/04/2011 15:42

Pincushion, I do understand. I too, get resentful at times that we don't have enough money to send our children to private schools, with their small classes and rolling sports fields.

I also think state-funded grammars are reminiscent of 'Brave New World' where people are separated into Alphas, Betas and Gammas, with little ability to move 'up' once you've been placed. Similarly to you, I feel it's unfair that only twenty per cent of children benefit from these schools, but 100% of tax payers in grammar areas pay for them.

If the government made private, grammar and church schools illegal, that may be fair.

But I think geting upset about church schools, which have been shown to help less advantaged children, over the other inequalities in education, is odd.

starlady · 02/04/2011 15:52

One more thing, pincushion. Both of my children have mild disabilities, one has asd in addition to physical problems. Special needs more than welcomed. In fact, if you have a statement (my kids don't) you walk straight into any state school.

A friend is sending her Down's daughter to the local excellent RC school (80% a -c results - also about 70% Afro-Carribean).

Sorry don't mean to badger you on this. As I said I do have understanding of how you feel, but want to point out RC schools aren't as elitist, or as discriminatory as you think.