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Original poster

Are the majority of classes in state schools as disruptive as the class on Jamie Oliver's Dream School?

408 replies

mummynoo · 04/03/2011 09:37

After watching Jamie Oliver's dream school, I am wondering if all state school classes are as rude and disruptive as the class featured in this programme. Since my daughter is due to start infants school this September?

Can any teachers who might be reading this give me their opinion. Is it impossible to teach because the pupils are constantly talking over you?

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 07/03/2011 16:52

Of course people have to work-I have had to work but I was taking issue with fivecandles and the thought that I would have to go out to work while DH got the joy of staying at home.(if I was the ambitious one it would be different)
I certainly am not going to work for school fees, unless there was something very wrong with state schools in my area.

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 16:53

Agree with that bitsy and I agree the idea that if all SAHMs got off their bums they could and would want to afford private school fees is ridiculous.

I do find it really depressing that so many people and so many instititions are still so rigidly divided along gender lines.

Dp and I are fortunate in that we're both teachers which I think is quite a progressive in terms of gender. I don't feel that this sort of gendered thinking is obvious at all.

exoticfruits · 07/03/2011 16:53

I don't think you are kept if you stay at home!!

TheBFactor · 07/03/2011 16:56

The problem is though, that our historically liberal education system has been degraded into "credentialism", a whole generation of young people only after the qualification hoping for the big bucks. All this make money to pay for private schools is a nonesense. It just fuels the attitude that money and priviledge are the ONLY reasons one should study, not the pursuit of knowledge.

The important thing is to choose something that gives them satisfaction. Where I studied we all went into the City to keep up with one another or with our neighbours. That IMO is the WRONG reason for choosing a career. I later very much regretted doing what all my other uni mates were doing. I felt I was almost forced into the City just to keep up with their salaries.

You will find that most girls (like me) who go into the City do so due to family/peer pressure, NOT because they are feminists out to prove to society how women can do it ! This is just naive nonesense. Most of the girls I was working with were activley looking for well-off husbands in the City. In private they all said all they wanted was to get married to someone well off enough, get the house and the car and then have 3 babies while hubby brought in the dosh. Not terribly feminst.

There are a few idealistic women out there who do go into politics or buisness just to prove that women can do it too. The majority don't go into it to champion the feminst cause.

Lead from the front? Yes great idea, but most don't do it for those reasons. They do it for the power and status it gives them as INDIVIDUALS, not for the female cause.

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 16:57

exotic, personally, I don't think it is ideal for the family full stop for either partner to be permanently at home in the long-term.

I favour the Scandinavian model where childcare tends to be shared as is paid work.

Flexible working hours, better and equal mat/pat pay, better and cheaper childcare would help with this.

I cannot for the life of me see why in the 21st century these aspects of lives are still so gendered in this country and I do not think it is healthy for either gender or for children.

Shirleywhirly · 07/03/2011 16:57

Fivecandles.

Great, as I say, works for you.

Would never work for us.

I am intensely independent and have a very full social life/totally absorbing hobby so don't " need" the stimulation that comes from an outside job.

I can't comprehend the antogonism, TBH. You want to work and do - great.

Many women don;t want to and so erm, don't.

I can't see why that bothers you? You working has no bearing on my opinions or how I live my life.

Shirleywhirly · 07/03/2011 16:58

Fivecandles - your DH is a teacher so presumably financially you have very little choice about whether you work or not?

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 16:59

'I don't think you are kept if you stay at home!!'

Well, we have all sorts of expressions for it but the fact is that in this scenario a man or woman and any offspring are being supported by the other partner. That's a huge responsibility for one person and a huge risk for the whole family but IMO both partners and children are denied huge opportunities. My partner would no more wish to be denied the opportunity to take an equal role in the raising of his children as I would wish to be denied the opportunity to take part in the world of work.

practicallyimperfect · 07/03/2011 17:01

I am a secondary teacher in a "bog standard" comp. We are considered good with outstanding features, and get 65% A-c. I have between 2 and 6 kids like this in every class I teach. I have taught in 3 schools of similar type and would say that it was normal.

bitsyandbetty · 07/03/2011 17:02

Shirleywhirly. That is a great generalisation, what about Heads? Some teachers salaries are high and some of my friends who are married to teachers including a house husband do not need to work.

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 17:04

My dp could always have supported us. Me not working was never an option. I love my job and both our jobs work brilliantly around childcare. My The fact that we both earn means we can be even more flexible with our hours so that one or other of us is always at the school gates to pick up the kids for example and can afford luxuries like private school fees. But that is NOT why we both work.

Actually since we both work school hours with school holidays and we both love our jobs it would be quite odd for me not to work. We also couldn't say that it would be so the children could be better cared for since when we're at work they're at school and when they're home we're home.

bitsyandbetty · 07/03/2011 17:04

Would I rather my DH was a big part of the family or a high earner who is never there? For me the former. A friend of mine was mortified when her daughter asked her where Daddy lived, so was he and he now works from home one day a week. This is becoming more normal with many men who want to spend time with their kids.

wordfactory · 07/03/2011 17:05

SW my DH is the managing partner of a City law firm...I suspect we could just about scrape by.

I still like working.

QuickLookBusy · 07/03/2011 17:05

The problem with Xenia and others who agree with her is that their views are so extreme.
There are lots of scenarios in families-SAHM/SAHD/working full time/working part time etc etc. These work for many many families and many woman are totally happy with their situations.

Why can't you accept that?

ChorltonChick · 07/03/2011 17:06

OMG what a comment shirleywhirly

DH is 38yrs old and an Asst.head on 53K/year (and not at top of pay scale yet) - I could afford not to work, but chose to work.

That was a tad cheeky to say the least

ChorltonChick · 07/03/2011 17:07

oh and his head teacher is on 150K and deserves every flipping penny

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 17:07

'Would I rather my DH was a big part of the family or a high earner who is never there? For me the former'

Snap.

My sister is in the latter situation and she's run ragged by the kids and generally unsatisfied.

Who actually wins in that situation. Yeah, they have nice houses but I'm not sure how much either of them can enjoy that or each other and her husband certainly doesn't get to be with his kids.

exoticfruits · 07/03/2011 17:08

'I am intensely independent and have a very full social life/totally absorbing hobby so don't " need" the stimulation that comes from an outside job.'

Me too-I only do it because I need the money. DH earns more, but since he couldn't do it without me being an equal partner, I am not kept. I hate delegating childcare-it is way more exciting than any paid work to me.

Shirleywhirly · 07/03/2011 17:09

Fivecandles.

Again. Great.

YOU wish to work, YOUR DH wants to be a hands on dad.

Why can you not get your head around the fact that some people prefer to do things differently?

Some people don't want to SAH to raise their children themselves and prefer to work. Some people prefer to SAH. Those people can be either men or women.

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 17:09

Yep, DP is a dep head. But we could always have lived in just his salary but we all would have hated it for lots and lots of reasons.

smee · 07/03/2011 17:11

Equality in a relationship is about attitude, rather than who works to pay the bills. It doesn't matter if you're a woman who stays at home with the kids, or a man - if your partner works and sees you as some sort of leach who's there to raise the kids and provide sex when he or she wants it, well it's a pretty crap relationship. Certainly not one I'd want to be in or one I'd want to raise a child within.

fwiw I know lots of men who share childcare - mine certainly does. To a certain extent, both of us have sacrificed career position/ status to spend more time at home. Totally our choice, but it's not as unusual as some on here make it out to be. Though admittedly we're not having to work to try and pay private school fees. Grin

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 17:14

Shirley, I do accept that but my point is that I don't know how healthy this model is for society as a whole.

Some reasons:

It's a huge responsibility and pressure for the paid worker.

The paid worker is unlikely to get to spend much time with the family and may resent this or just never get the joy of it.

It's a huge risk for the whole family. The partner who doesn't work is hugely vulnerable. What happens if s/he is the partner who works leaves/ dies/ gets ill? Does the paid worker also pay for a pension for the SAHM/D?

Both partners are denied a whole world of experience and opportunity - either the family or the workplace.

The kids get the message that life (work and family) is gendered.

It's really hard to get back into work if you've been out of it for a long time and need to or want to later on down the line.

I could go on...

So you see this is not just an issue about personal choice. There are lots and lots of issues on a bigger scale.

Shirleywhirly · 07/03/2011 17:14

Why do people assume that if one ( man) is working and the other at home they worker never sees their kids?

I don't see that assumption/comment made about working mothers.

Shirleywhirly · 07/03/2011 17:15

FC, maybe, just maybe, some men LIKE the responsibility?

Again, why ON EARTH do you assume the paid worker doesn't spend much time with his family?

Is your DH part time, then?

fivecandles · 07/03/2011 17:16

'Equality in a relationship is about attitude, rather than who works to pay the bills'

Hmm, but attitudes change. What if the loving husband trades in his wife and the mother of his kids after she's devoted 20 years to nothing else?

Not much equality there is there?

And it's not just about attitudes. What happens if he gets ill or dies young leaving her without a pension?

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