Are the majority of classes in state schools as disruptive as the class on Jamie Oliver's Dream School?

[mummynoo]

After watching Jamie Oliver's dream school, I am wondering if all state school classes are as rude and disruptive as the class featured in this programme. Since my daughter is due to start infants school this September?

Can any teachers who might be reading this give me their opinion. Is it impossible to teach because the pupils are constantly talking over you?

i wouldn't base anything on a tv show

any judgement i mean. as long as the school has a good head the rest usually follows

Please remember that this is a TV show, edited for effect. Some schools are great, some dire. Also remember that there will usually be a handful of trouble makers in any year group at secondary school. It is not usual to have them all in one place.

I know its just a TV show, I was just wondering if the impression that it gave was a realistic one

No, that is not normal. There are disruptive children but not in concentration shown and the children in the programme knew they weren't having a normal day so wouldn't behave in a normal way anyway.

No

I haven't seen jamies programme but I can imagine. The majority of lessons at state school are not like this. There will be the occasional lesson in most schools with a very difficult group of year 11 and a few schools may have lots of lessons like this. It is not the norm though.

Ds goes to a comprehensive school.

I watched the Jamie Oliver programme with him and he was boggle eyed. He said he couldn't imagine being in a class like that.

Former MFL teacher here- ime here there are between 2 and 5 in every class except for top sets in every single state school I've been/taught/observed in. Worse and more in lower middle sets, sometimes surprisingly fewer in bottom sets. I had consistently high (excellent) Ofsteds and obs and was widely reputed to be "scary" by pupils, so not a behaviour management issue on my part.

I pay for my children to go to independent school, as do many state school teachers.

I think you have to remember that the programme is showing 20 (?) individuals who have all failed to gain any GCSEs by the time they left school. You are unlikely to get an entire class made up of the people in the tv programme.

That said, I have 2 sons at secondary school. It is a very well regarded school, largely middle class area, OFSTED gave it Outstanding at its most recent inspection, good results - best in county I believe - and the stories my boys tell me of the behaviour of some of the pupils makes my hair stand on end (and my boys are in the top groups for everything so you would think they were with more motivated pupils).

Sorry, I meant to say my boys are at a comprehensive. It is a good comprehensive, but a comprehensive nonetheless, before anyone thinks they are at a selective school or similar.

Dumbledore- Thomas Telford?

They did say on the programme that 50% of children leave UK state schools withou 5 GCSEs at A - C grades. So half of children are doing pretty badly academically. That might include English and Maths too. Grade C GCSE maths and English is not that difficult. Tesco wanting 16 year olds finds it hard to find enough who can add up and write properly and wants more basics taught in schools. My children's ather taught in both sectors and although he is very good, he did feel more like a police man in the state sector and that was not just because the schools were non selective although perhaps if parents pay they are of course more committed to education and therefore their children are more likely to behave etc. although I m certainly not suggesting teeangers can't be difficult in private schools. It's just how it's handled which seems different.

I think there are plenty of comprehensives in leafy suburbs with expensive houses around or even comps without difficult intakes where children seem to be do okay.

Although if you're thinking of education for your daugther 50% of parents would pay if they could afford it and the 7% who go to private schools in the UK end up being phenomenally successful. There's little a mother can do better for her chidlren in the UK than choosing a career when enables her to pay school fees.

Eighteenth century canal builder?

I am assuming there is a school named after him

No, not my children's school.

what duchesse said.

I imagine KS1 will be somewhat different!

It was the comment about the results! They have some of the top state school results but I'm told the staff work even harder than the rest of us.

My sons' school only has top results for our county (which is tiny - probably less than 20 secondary schools in total) so I don't really have that much to boast about. Anyway, I am not impressed with it. I only mentioned all the good things about the school to give the OP the idea that even "good" schools have their share of disruptive pupils. It is very depressing, I think.

Xenia - GCSE maths grade C is not easy for a lot of students. You need an appreciation of algebra that causes problems for many children.

My children old primary school teacher had em all doing algebra from age 9- utterly non-selective school and more than its fair of oddballs - much higher than average proportion of ASD, ADHD, and dyslexia due to the nature of the school. Algebra explained properly is not a problem even for an average child. Not learning anything cos you're not listening IS. It's all in the environment. And developing the listening skills that are sadly on the wane among the young. I think someone mentioned those on the Jamie thread and I agree wholeheartedly- too many pupils too keen for their voice to be heard above the teacher's when they can't teach the bloody curriculum. The best school skill you can teach your primary aged child is how to shut up and listen when they should and make sure that carries on into the teenage years.

So are we saying 50% of the children in this country just don't have an IQ level high enough to get 5 GCSEs at grade C or higher. If that is so why did we abolish O level and CSEs and merger them into something which is between the two if the old CSE candidates cannot manage them? I suppose those children do the NVQ or whatever vocational exams and not GCSEs at all. Is that realyls o that 50% of them are so so low in intelligence ie 50% of mumsnet poster's children that grade C maths is a dizzy height they will never reach or is it the teaching or the parents or home life?

There may be a relationship between IQ and GCSEs but it is not helpful to use IQ to channel types of learning. i.e. vocation v academic. Some would say that IQ is not that helpful generally.

ime there is a strong correlation between application and 5 GCSEs above grade C. I have taught averagely bright pupils but keen in MFL who through no fault of their own were keen but had not been taught a language before year 11 (massive school disorganisation, being a refugee etc) and with hard work they achieved C and D after just one year. Nobody will convince me that with decent learning conditions most pupils could not get at least a C in their chosen MFL after 5 years by just knuckling down and learning their stuff. The problem is that many just don't.

xenia, I think the point of GCSEs is that there was one qualification with many grades, so you could make a fair comparison. . The point of the A-C metric is that those are supposed to be the grades corresponding to the old O level passes. There are grades below this which are still passes. When there were GCEs and CSEs, someone put in for CSE could never get more than a grade one CSE, and while that was supposed to be equivalent to a GCE pass it didn't indicate how good a pass.

These are kids who did not get the correct level of GCSEs so are not representative.

The percentage of students c or higher at GCSE Maths is about 50%. I would say that of those that don't roughly half are capable but don't work or have health or social reasons for not achieveing and about half struggle intellectually with the content.
duchesse - there are different threads of algebra. You can get students to solve equations by rote but once you get to the higher threads they need an understanding, this is what holds many back. There are students at 16 who still struggle with finding a half of a number let alone a quarter or sixth etc. They are so far off a C it will never happen.

Attendance has a massive impact on achievement. Students who miss a day a week or more have so many gaps that they often give up meaning they miss even more school. This is due to parents. There are some who miss lots of time for genuine haelth reasons and I am not talking about them. The vast majority of poor attenders have no real reason other than their parents don't think it is an issue.