Are the majority of classes in state schools as disruptive as the class on Jamie Oliver's Dream School?

[mummynoo]

After watching Jamie Oliver's dream school, I am wondering if all state school classes are as rude and disruptive as the class featured in this programme. Since my daughter is due to start infants school this September?

Can any teachers who might be reading this give me their opinion. Is it impossible to teach because the pupils are constantly talking over you?

" the 7% who go to private schools in the UK end up being phenomenally successful"

I just lost my coffee to that remark!!

I know so many successful people from state schools and so many from private.

But I also know of a great number of complete wasters from both too.

My DH went to a sink comp. He's a company director, six figures and all the trimmings thank you very much.
My best friend went to a top public school. Zero . Literally, not a GCSE. Pulls pints occasionally to pay the gas.

I could go on ad infinitum with similar examples but won't.

My kids are at state primary, private secondary, BTW.

So are we saying 50% of the children in this country just don't have an IQ level high enough to get 5 GCSEs at grade C or higher.

Given that this was supposed to be O-level equivalent, why is this suprising - other than that its not nearer 75%?

Nothing to do with IQ. Some people with high IQ lack the motivation or application. IQ helps but is not be all and end all.

It seems to me that we want everything in this country. We want tough rigorous standards that only the most able can get and if too many students pass at A/A\8 then it is beacuse the exams are too easy. We also want everyone to pass and if they don't it must be due to poor teaching/parenting or some other reason. We can't have it both ways.

I was asking why it is so. C is not that hard a level to attain at GCSE which is a merger of the easier CSEs and harder O levels we used to do in my time but it seems beyond 50% of children.

As for my phenomenally successul - go the cabinet, go to the boards of every top 100 company, look even at our leading bishops, go go the top of just about everything in this country and it is stuffed to the rafters with the products of schools such as those my chidlren have been lucky enough to attend. Those in those positions of power in no way represent the proportion of children who go to state schools. Thus nothing does your children better than a place at a good school.

not even a significant percentage of classes in state schools are as disruptive as that class - watching it most of them had spent time in PRUs or/and large amounts of time out of school

These are pupils who were too badly behaved for schools to allow them to remain

Yes, there's one boy who is from a family of four (other 3 apparently done well) who has been in private and state schools and arrested and done drugs and offences for graffiti and all sorts.

The problem is even if there are just one or two disruptive pupils in a class it can make a difference imo.

Tabliope, yes, a huge difference. It can be the difference between a successful lesson and virtually no lesson at all, depending on how poor the behaviour of those few is, and whether they are quickly removed or not. Different schools have different policies on in-class behaviour management.

the local 'independent' school here produces doctors and comedians (or so it seems)

xenia you are assuming we all want our children to have positions of power - i just want mine to be happy - would hate to be in that corrupt world myself.

I am a teacher and have spent my career teaching in mainstream inner London secondaries and PRUs working with students with behavioural difficulties.

The lessons are nothing like the programme- mainly because they were not being taught by teachers IMO. The teaching was well intentioned, but with no training it's difficult for even an expert in their subject to impart knowledge effectively.

Also, what we saw was the first lesson; teaching children with behavioural difficulties takes time to build up a relationship... jumping in straight away doesn't work very well.

I think many people are doing a Starkey and seeing the students as one seething, scary, texting mass, rather than as individuals.

Hmmm, hadn't really thought of trying to determine future career of my children through choosing indy or state... But now Xenia has planted the seed, and seeing as we're in the lucky position of being able to choose which we use, what would you recommend if my wish list includes complete horror at the thought of cabinet minister, on the board of a top 100 company and definitely not a bishop! I would be ever so pleased to produce a GP who goes off with the VSO, or maybe a surfer dude who lives in Cornwall so we have somewhere ice for weekends away? Oh, I know, some sort of eco warrior - I would be so proud if I produced an adult who saved a forest or something.... So, state or Indy, what do you think?

Good post tethers - yes, I recognise those pupils - some groups have several pupils like this in, most classes have one or two. However there is no way I would have approached them the way the celebs did - with young people )who have a history of not much success at school especially) you need to build up a relationship first - at least find out their names and a bit about what they already know!!!

Yes of course! Almost all of them.

Beware!!!

Well alienb, I saved a bit of rainforest as I preserve it on my island. If your child accumulates wealth it will be in a position to buy vast tracts of Brazil and do a lot more good than if it works in the local call centre and volunteers for a save the forests charity at weekends.

It may well be that some parents, perhaps lots have an ambition that their daughter work on the till at TEsco not be on the board of Tesco and may be that's the difference between expectations in state and ptivate schools. It would be rather sad if that were so, if parents from poor homes think - a career as a busienss leader is not for the likes of us given how far and from such low earning roots many of our leading business people who work in the retail sector are from.

Yes, I agree with the teacher above - those people some, don't know what teaching is. One reason I explain thigns pretty well to people is I need it all to be very simple to understand it myself, with a lot of examples.

The programme is just a bit of fun and draws attention to the issue of 50% of chidlren perhaps not doing so well in GCSEs ie hardly getting any

I cannot understand a school environment though where you let children text in class. I've had 3 teenagers. I know exactly what chidlren that age can be like and how they push and want to break rules etc etc but if the private school can ensure no one is texting in class (and I'm not saying 100% they always achieve that) I don't see what is so different about a state school except that persumably the chidlren are in many cases too poor to own a phone or do we pay such high benefits every teenager can afford a phone these days? If so is that part of the problem

Xenia - my DH is on the board of a blue chip company.

Sorry that must fuck your figures up, somewhat.

And, FTR, the friend of mine who has left school with nothing was at a school like the ones your kids were , " lucky " enough to attend.

I have family from top public schools earning peanuts and friends from sink comps who are millionaires.

If you need a leg up from a public school to get a decent job, you aren't worth it in the first place, IMO.

Yes, Xenia, hadn't you heard?

WE now give poor people with low IQs lots of benefits so that they can buy game consoles too.

Glad that you think 50% of kids in this country not doing well in GCSEs is a bit of fun, though.

Anyone else here just dying to know how all Xenias kids eventually end up?

Xenia you really do spout some claptrap.

I too am not aiming for my DC to be wealthy, I want so much more for them than struggling to get to the top. Kicking a load of people out of the way as they get there.

I say that as someone who made a conscious decision to send DC to a state school. DD1 is a RG uni and DD2 is on track to go there. They both want to work in the charity sector. They aren't interested in making millions and buying islands. I am extremely proud of their ambitions.

I know too many people and their DC with millions in the bank but leading disfunctional lives to aspire to their way of lives.

C is not that hard a level to attain at GCSE which is a merger of the easier CSEs and harder O levels we used to do in my time but it seems beyond 50% of children.

xenia, I've already explained this - a C is equivalent to an O level pass (or CSE grade 1). What proportion of the population achieved that in 5 subjects in the days of grammar (~25% of the population) and secondary moderns, do you reckon? I'll bet it wasn't 50%

I'm beginning to wonder where your kids got their brains from if you don't get that

It would be nice for my kids to have money , of course it would. And I certainly would prefer for them not to struggle financially.

But the most important things in life are your relationships. If you have a good marriage/relationship, no amount of money can beat that. Likewise relationships in general.

NO -of course not! Why on earth would we send them?!
My DCs have been right through the state, comprehensive system and out to top universities-as have their friends. I would home educate if I thought they were in classes where the teacher couldn't teach! No way would I put them through it.

You will get pupils like it in some schools, but it isn't the norm-unless (sadly) you live in a deprived area with DCs and parents who have no ambitions or work ethic.

Visit the school first on a normal working day.