Who gets the best jobs?

[fizzyfanta]

I wonder if anyone watched this programme on BBC2 last night.

Whilst I appreciate that children from poorer backgrounds are not exposed to the same resources as those who have been privately educated, I cant help think that sometimes,these children are let down by their own parents and possibly their schools for not giving them enough courage to make them believe that 'they can be who they want to be'. Surely, the whole thing is being generalised and private education is being used as a scapegoat for the failures of the state system?

huh ?

I felt sorry fro the kids who were asked what they wanted to do in the future - and all them want to emulate Cheryl Cole.

Apparently at their school, noone had talked to them about careers such as being a doctor, a lawyer, architect or any professional job.

Also, the parents of the young boy starting out at the local comp made it clear that they did not wish for their son to go to Uni because he would start of life in a debt? Thats a bit of a shame isnt it? What chances does that boy have?

Well, to be fair he may have a very happy productive life.

I ask myself this question too. I think it must be mainly down to who you know cos I can't seem to land a 'best job' despite having a physics degree and being very motivated and capable. I work in a small accounts office and I mam striving to gain professional accounts qualifications and want a Management Accts job but can't seem to get the break I need.

Going to top schools gives you a social network and a step up and the self-confidence to believe in your abilities.

victotiah you do believe in your ability, what it gives you is contacts, end of.

sorry for mis typing name !

I think there is a lack of aspiration in some circles.

However, changing that won't in itself overcome the other barriers.

1.You have to be bright enough to get the grades.

1. You need to have had excellent advice regarding subjetc choices.

3.You need to have help with your PS and interview technique for a good uni.

1. You need to have had good advice on course choice.
2. You need to be able to pay for the course.
3. You may need to do further study which costs £££
4. You may need to do internships which are unapid and generally in London.
5. You will struggle to obtain an internship without the right contacts.

I could go on and on...

None of these are impossible to overcome. Howver, they are all bloody hard, I think.

Whilst its true that in some cases, it does depend on you know, you CANT put the blame on private education.

I think the state schools should pick up some of the things that private schools do. Make every child believe that they can be a doctor, or a barrister or something like that. They should help instill the confidence.

Some people might actually like to be a hairdresser or mechanic rather than a lawyer.

Not every child has the ability to be a doctor or barrister. Schools need to match an individual's abilities with potential jobs. If they are not academic then vocational courses eg hairdressing mechanic etc should be offered from say 14 years alongside core subjects. Not every child is capable of passing exams

I enjoyed the programme. It did make sweeping generalizations. I found the bloke who was a professor who stated that middle class children have more intelligent DNA than working class children. That it had nothing to do with the resources available to them, is a liar and a cheat. He is taking (probably) Public funded wages to come up with nonsense. He made me very cross, to think that some Daily Mail readers would think he was right. I couldn?t go to college as my Dad wouldn?t sign my grant papers and I didn?t know (until recently while reading a biography) that I could have got an independent living grant after living alone for a year! I know my Dad would have paid for a tutor but we didn?t have the funds. (and there is a long story behind that too)
Now DH agrees with me that we will get tutoring for our son. DH came from a working class family and was able (by having a pushy dad) to go to grammar school. He applied to join the Army Air Fleet but did not have experience of those types of exams, so failed. Not though lack of intelligence but lack of resources. He ended up being a milkman for a while until a light bulb went off in his head and some advice from the Jobcentre that he could go to university. By then he was 1-2 years old than the rest. If his family thought (even wrongly) that he would be in debt after uni I don?t think then would have taken that leap of faith that he would earn enough to cancel the debt. All of these details are now magnified today.

Starbear, lovely wasn't he The thing is lots of people believe that on MN.

Litchick I agree with your list. I would put
1.excellent advice
&
2.The right contacts. Top of my list.
The reason I'm in the well paid job I'm in at the moment (and I joined the profession late) was through contacts I made at my previous jobs. I made them as a sales assistant in Allders This is for an average job that only need 5 O'levels.

Yes , not every one is destined to be a barrister and that is why I think programmes like these shouldnt really make such ridiculous generalisations.

I just think that some children are actually let down by their own parents by making them believe that a certain life is not for them.

Its all very well saying that xx% of top jobs are taken by a certain type of person but the state should be willing to improve the education it provides to the people. If the 7% are doing well, the problem is with the providers of the 93%

Feegle if i wasn't so well brought up I would like to smash his face in. Right must get on with housework so I have enough time later on to make contacts for my son at the school gate and tutor him tonight instead of hoovering

I wonder if the lower ability children in private schools are pointed in the direction of manual work. I doubt it somehow.

It's the aspiration gap, well known.

You need to tackle the points that litchick makes. And you need to provide all children with the information about jobs and universities and courses and so on, and if they can realistically do it they need to be encouraged and put forward.

Bottom line is that children in private schools will have better prospects than children in state schools from unsupportive homes / with less money / less facilities etc etc - and it's got nothing to do with the former being brighter than the latter.

fizzyfanta I think the being a barrister was used as an example. I want my son to join the BBC and fanny aroun like Micheal Palin or the blokes off Top Gear What a life
Must must go now!

well grammar schools were the nearest to private schools and everyone said there were very discriminating.

shame, my kids are stuck at the local comp

There is nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty. Some of the best paid folk I know are tradesmen like plumbers or engineers and I don't think many of them were ptivately educated. Some people are just not academic and unfortunately school is geared only towards passing exams and league tables. Fur coat and no knickers...

victoriah don't you find it strange though that apparently most children whose parents can afford private schools turn out to be academic while many children whose parents do not have that kind of money are not.

I am sure that the difference is due to a number of factors including quality of education and expectations, rather than subscribe to the theory that less well of parents produce thick children.

Take almost any child and put them in a great private school and they will perform well there. Take almost any child and put them in a difficult home in an area with problems, and send them to a crap school and they won't do so well. It's common sense, surely.

Vicky But I don't think that's the point. It's the resources to be the best that you could potentially be. there are also very few vocational apprenticeship. Even to be a plumber or carpenter you often know family or family friends to get you going and give you work experience. Vicky how did these peopple get their jobs through uncles and family friends I bet.
I wouldn't mind my son being a carpenter but only for the BBC

Yep, I agree with Starbear - the right advice and the right contacts are critical.

Unfortunately I think too often in Britain speaking the 'right' way also makes a difference.

I'm sure as a teenager I was offered opportunities that wouldn't have come my way if I hadn't had a (at least reasonably) middle class voice & manner.

Agree with victoriah3 that it also works badly the other way round - some kids who get pushed through university would be much happier & more productive if they were encouraged to go for a good trade.

Takver True, My collegue's Mother paid for elocution lesson just to get the 5 O'level job I got. Apparentlly people tell me I have a Telly/BBC middle England accent my class can't be pin pointed.

a bright child will flourish as long as they are given the encouragement to believe in themselves. Take the girl from Peckham for example she has support for what she is doing so is doing well.

Stop bashing private schools and start looking at the reasons why middle class people are bending over backwards to extract their children from a failing education system. The other countries mentioned in the programme all spend far more on education than we do per pupil, so is it any wonder they obtain better results.

I do agree we all need skilled workers, plumbers etc but we need to sort the education system out so that school is not just geared towards accademics and everyone ends up with an education that they can use

Oh and the private school my DCs go to encourages less accademic pupils to take BTEC and NVQ qualifications so they are prepared for life.