University Fees

[Xenia]

I see that Lord Browne in his report may apparently suggest (Sunday Times today):

• rights for universities to charge fees of up to £10k a year rather than the £3200 or whatever it now is perhaps from 2012

• removal of cheap loans for children of the middle classes (presumably even if their parents are not prepared to help them)

• interest rate susidies on loans going up 2%

• students who go into high paid careers will have to pay back more than they borrowed perhaps capped at 20%

• and one which pleases me - parents will be able to avoid the graduate tax for their children if they pay the fees in advance. None of my older 3 children took out student loans as I paid as I wanted them to be in the same position when I graduated in the days when there were no fees paid by students.

However the report is not yet finished and he may recommend abolishing the cap on tuition fees and let the free market rule which may be wise.

Yes, to pay 30k upfront, and we have three kids.

:( Must be nice for those with parents able to pay the fees up front. Screw the rest, huh?

who the eff is Lord browne anyway?

I'm guessing that is the plan Riven.

Not like the Tories to look out for the rich people.

So if you want to study medicine that would be 70k upfront. Or a lifetime of massive debt

Well, you wouldn't even need to be that poor would you. I would think middle income people will be buggered as well.

DH's Uni group were called into a meeting last week and expressly forbidden from working alongside study in order to maintain current high standards (highest performing course at the uni so lecturers getting kudos).

I mnean, quite apart from the fact that they will be ignored, WTF? How many people could manage that? Joke.

If this comes in mine won;t be able to go, or at least emerge debt free simply becuase there is a substantial chance that I will at least only be in part time work becuase I will always be a carer to their disabled sibling. Why should they be penalised for that?

Our generation was lucky to receive free or subsidised university education. Absolutely necessary to put fees up to market rates - necessary for the universities who are starved of funds and necessary for our children who need to develop more focussed career plans earlier. Bit sad, but on the whole welcome.

I'm pleased that fee payers can avoid the graduate tax as well.

I've been doing the sums. Say my two want to do law - which is relatively likely. That's 3 years + 1 year assuming they do a law degree initially, which they may not.

8 x 15 = £120k.

I started saving a few years ago but probably need to revise the amounts up. It's like pension contributions, isn't it? You are told X amount of contributions will be enough, and then it turns out that what is really needed is Y amount (Y being a multiple of X).

Two of mine want to do medicine and veterinary science - well thats not going to happen despite the excellent grades, poor things.

I already feel like undergraduates seem to be wealthier than they used to be. Is that my imagination?

I think it's wrong to charge more than the cost of the course, no matter what the subsequent income.

And there will be all sorts of unintended consequences -it will deter many from going (with impact on what the institutions can provide), and will provoke a flight to foreign universities for those that can.

And generally I feel it is wrong to try to reduce education to its commercial utility only.

It's not your imagination but that's becasue IME (and as well as DH I graduated in 2008 so not long ago) the students who can are in full time work if their course allows WRT to hours (DH is in 40 hours a week, mine was arts so certainly didn;t require that).

Now however there is a growing number of students unable to find work becuase A) tehre is very little anyway (espeically where we are absed), and B) the students that graduated over the past few years still have their student jobs due to recession.

I'm hoping to do an MA conversion in 2012 in a bursaried subject but it will be impossible to work alongside (shifts requried) even if I didn't have the family. I am lucky as I have DH to shre the financial burden; many aren't so fortunate.

Lord browne was the man who was incharge of BP who had the trouble over something not quite accurate in his witness statement (and a gay lover) and then left BP and was put in charge of what we will do about university funding. The Government will be considering his report when it is out.

If you pay £10k per child for school fees now as I think may be 20% of parents do at A level stage but I might be wrong then that is effectively then continued so it's not unmanageable for some parents although there is also costs of rent and food etc. In theory it might make it easier for my younger two as there might be less competition. It might mean a load of useless unversity courses and also children who really ought not to be at university go which could be a good thing too.

I think there would still be good loans for children of families not very well off. Also the fee you would repay throughout your life so would not need to be paid now. If your career and degree choice means you'll earn say £200k a year for 40 years surely evemn the chidlren of the very poor could see that paying £30k back of fees might be worth it? If they pick a degree in sewing and then take a job in a care home after then obviously yes they might well be rather stupidly taking on debt but if they pick sensible careers then it should be manageable.

But what exactly is stopping your DCs from doing medecine or veterinary science, Mrs Doof?

The average GP earns close to six figures, some much more. Why should high university fees deter them? It's a test of commitment in a way.

"In theory it might make it easier for my younger two as there might be less competition."

'means you'll earn say £200k a year for 40 years surely evemn the chidlren of the very poor could see that paying £30k back of fees might be worth it?

true

watch the furture eyachers / social workers / nurses vanish....

Well, they could still do it but the question is will they still want to. Yes, it is a test of commitment. However, that test is going to be so much easier for those with families that can give them a hand.

Other interesting thing of course is that last week the LDs sent out a statement to party (or indeed former ) pasrty members saying they thought the Tories would give into the demand for free university tuition.

Now either that was:

A) a shit attempt to subdue anti_Tory feeling at the conference;

B) just compeltely misled

C) true and the OP is completely wrong about what will happen (Xenia? a well known agenda to follow? dunno what one would mean, guv )

then who knows.

All the above, probably.

Also, not all doctors and vets have a final wage of 200k.

They could MrsD but as someone hoping to start SW training when I complete my relevant MA next eyar, for em the answer would be a clear nope. Not a bloody chance.