GCSE results are upon us

[Remotew]

Anyone else suffering from the jitters? DD has been for a couple of days now and now me. Coping strategies welcome.

Righto, thank you! It wasn't so confusing in my day(many, many years ago)

Who cares?

I found a 1982 O level exam paper when I was clearing out before the holidays. A whole exam paper - not selected questions. And we compared it with the Higher tier Biology GCSE papers that our top sets sat in June. They were surprisingly similar actually. How Science Works questions on both. The O level candidates wouldn;t have been able to answer the questions on genetic engineering, and the GCSE candidates wouldn't have been able to draw and label the ventral surface of an earthworm, but essentially they were pretty similar. I was surprised. It has been taken as read that O levels were harder, but I am less convinced than I was, even though I am also of O level vintage myself (and "outstandingly exceptional ), so of course have a vested interest in that being true.

Excellent, So I'm still outstandingly exceptional. Phew.

I shall conduct a little test myself in the new term I think. Brace yourself year 11...

It's hard, isn't it? Because it seems to clear that it must be so. Were O levels basic skills though? I remember doing differentiation for my O level Maths which I know isn't covered until A level now. Which seems to back up the thesis. Hardly basic skills though. I suspect there is a difference between basic skills in literacy and numeracy and academic qualifications in Maths and English, but I am a Science teacher, and it is somewhat outside my remit.

I think my DC's peers are getting a better grounding in basic maths skills than others who have gone before though. Their mental maths is fabulous, and their understanding of really basic but essential stuff like place order. I used to demonstrate to medics when I was a postgrad (a long time ago...), and their understanding of basic arithmetic horrified me.

place value

Because, on the evidence before me, I'm not sure the exam in my subject is easier. The A level I think possibly is, although I haven't seen an old style terminal exam A level paper for some time.

Others can give more considered judgements on other subjects I'm sure. And I dare say some will agree with you.

My DS is 9 btw. He's pretty good at Maths, but he's not going to be doing a GCSE any time soon

LeQueen, just remind me what age your DDs are. I want to know because I'd like to come back when they are in years 10 and 11 and hear your thoughts then.

There was a time when I would have had some time for your theories but not now that DD1 has just completed her GCSEs.
Contrary to popular belief on MN it's not automatic that your child will get a string of A* with no effort required.
I'm not sure why grades increase every year. I suspect it is because there is so much emphasis on just passing the exam and the teaching reflects this, but I can tell you that effort is still required.

lequeen - you are right of course
my friend looked up numbers of A's awarded in 1978 or thereabouts when she did her gces and it was circa 5% iirc

now 25% - not rocket science is it

our children are older than a lot of our peers and some are doing gcse and a level. they roll their eyes when we say our dc are disappointed with A's and when people say a B is not good but a B now is a D 20 years ago....

on newsnight the night ds got his GCSEs an educationalist said - go down two grades to see what you would have got twenty years ago

I agree with LeQueen too and I have older DCs who have taken their GCES and A levels.

However, I would add that some of the pupils at their highly selective grammar school would certainly have achieved the top grades in the old O levels and A levels.

They are working at a level far beyond what is needed to secure the top grade and in fact they are told more or less to 'dumb down' with some of their answers or it will be outside the marking criteria and they will be marked down!!

Those pupils tend to apply (successfully) to Oxbridge where extra tests/interviews are set which actually show their true academic potential.

I think part of the reason for more good grades is assessment. If pupils work well enough and get enough help in these modules, then the pressure is reduced on the final spurt so to speak.

Wasn't this introduced to level the playing field for girls, who, it was thought, underperformed in do-or-die exams?

My 16 year old daughter was predicted to get 10 A-A*s she in fact got 5 A's and 5 B's. I feel hugely disappointed, as she admits she did not work to her full potential. She has been at the top of her game since primary school, I admit I have been a pushy mum, (if nagging to practice violin, and doing homework, paying for tutors etc can be considered pushy) believing that is what was needed to help her succeed. How do we as parents now motivate her to take her A levels more seriously? she is very bright, or should I just back off and leave her to it.

LeQueen I just hope that you don't make your views too obvious to your DDs when the time comes. The pressure on them will be great enough.
Yes, litchick, girls apparently do better in coursework. Dds physics coursework was an A, so she was even more pleased with her A* because she must have done particularly well in the final exam.
If the exams were really so easy then pupils at highly selective grammar schools should have 100% pass rate at A* and A. They don't.

Oh dear, polkadotmum, I was your daughter! Having been top of the class for years I went from straight As to a mix of As and Bs (6As and two Bs at O-Grade and then two A's and three Bs at Higher, although I did get over 90% in those last two As!). I should have been capable of straight As (my sibling got them) but I think the problem was that i found school work too easy in the early years; I was very well read and had a good memory for facts (still ace at quizzes) and this was enough at first but I started to find work challenging when more analysis was required. I hadn't developed enough study skills or exam techniques and my teachers hadn't noticed. I was also very resistant to pressure from my parents.

What do I think would have helped?

1. Tutoring, especially help developing analytical skills and exam techniques.

1. Indirect pushiness from parents (ie. speaking to my teachers rather than nagging me)

1. Making me research the results I needed and setting them as a personal goal.

1. Ironically, letting me know that it's OK to try, but fail as long as you then try harder rather than give up.

I'm sure this is all obvious stuff! Good luck to your DD.

Haven't read the whole thread, so hope I'm not repeating anyone, but, in answer to UnQuietDad's comments about grades going up all the time, I heard an interesting Radio 4 programme the other day that said that they used to grade exams using norm-based assesment and now use criterion-based assesment. If I understood this correctly, it means that in the old days, the top, say, 10% got As, as they were way above average, the next however-many% got Bs, as they were above average, most people got Cs and so on. Now, pupils are assessed specifically on how much knowledge they have, so if they get 90% of the answer correct, they will get an A, alongside everyone else who got 90%, even if it's 100% of the entrants.

So assuming the teachers are doing their job and teaching the pupils what they need to know to pass the exam, the results will continue to improve. It is supposed to be a more objective way of grading, although with subjects such as english or art, there is still a degree of subjectivity in assessing whether an answer is 'correct' as opposed to 'incorrect' (I assume).

LeQueen, I used to think as you do, but I now think that's too simplistic & am agreeing more with MissAnne.

The exams may be a little easier (I do think sciences are and maths a little to be fair, but not hugely so and they are aimed at a much wider audience), but my observations are as follows:

Maths: I did no calculus in my O level maths (there was some basic calculus in A/O additional maths though, but not too much - no more than is in the current iGCSE which really isn't all that different to GCSE in difficulty in spite of the hype). You do have to do one GCSE paper without a calculator. Overall the exam is a bit easier than the old O level, but not hugely so.

English: I remember being really, really bad at English and still got B (lang) & A (lit) at O level (lang taken a year early). That was in spite of being banned from using commas entirely and instructed to stick to very simple sentence structure only. The level of my ds's GCSE English essays and analysis has astounded me & is far beyond what we had to do (it may have been a bit beyond what was needed for GCSE too, I'm not sure). So I really have seen no evidence of English being any easier.

Science: Well I do think this one is a bit lamentable, but a fair bit of the problem is not comparing like with like. The core science papers are (imo) laughably easy, but that is the easiest of 3 stages of science papers. I can say that the Physics syllabus at least is very reduced though and the questions are more predicatble/straightforward though even at the higher end. This imo is the area where bright youngsters today are not getting enough challenge (too many getting not just A*s, but not dropping any marks at all), but again, nowadays everyone does science, whereas in days of yore it was only the scientifically inclined who chose more than one (usally Biology) and of course only the most able sat O levels anyway, so maybe the 'dumbing down' here does have a greater good in terms of scientific awareness in the general population.

I do agree that the very, very ablest aren't especially stretched at GCSE, but it's getting more common to do them early or AS levels alongside to compensate for this, so it's not a huge issue and as MissAnne says they're actually not all getting straight A*s in the main, so there is still just about enough differentiation at the top I think.

Help can I ask your advice,bit last minute but DS is due to enrol at college tomorrow and is still undecided on what subjects to take at A level.
He is pretty bright but not all that bothered about studying so I am going with some of his choices but would like some input so he doesn't pick all easy options.
I would also like to leave the chance of going to uni in two years open as well.
We have therefore decided that he should do 2 As which would help with uni and the other 2 should be geared to getting a job in two years/one subject he really is keen to study.
He has decided on Eng Lang (uni) and Music Tech (his choice).The other 2 subjects are either between

Eng Lit - I know this would be good for uni with the other Eng but he is really not keen on reading etc.

Music - he got an A GCSE for this so one of his best subjects but will this help for uni??

Economics or Psychology or Govt and Politics - has anyone taken these ?Any advice?

He would like to do either business studies and/or IT - I am not keen as I don't think either of these will be good for uni.Well maybe Bus but he is more keen on IT.

Thanks for your help.

sharbie, I don't know much, but some thoughts:

Music is a well respected subject by universities (moreso even than music tech in fact).

I don't think English Lit is advisable if you don't like reading, although ds's friend who rarely reads has chosen it, so who knows).

Economics is respected and (at ds's school at least) very few drop it after AS which suggests it is generally enjoyable.

A friend of ds did Gov & Pol AS and enjoyed the course, but I don't know if it's considered 'soft' or not.

I have heard ICT is thought by some to be 'soft'.

Business Studies isn't too bad I think (though it does fail the 'ends in 'studies'=soft test).

Psychology is getting quite popular (not sure if that's mainly with girls though). I have a feeling it might be a 'marmite' subject that you either love or hate. Don't think it's soft.

Does he have any idea what subject he might study at university if he goes? Because that might help with the choices, but generally if he chooses subjects he enjoys he's more likely to succeed at them than subjects he feels pushed into.

Thanks snork really appreciate your reply.
Have also got a thread on chat about this.
He is blardy lazy and doesn't want to do anything much - I am hoping that by putting some thought into this now he will be less likely to drop out.
Economics and Govt/Pol are perhaps the two that we are leaning towards after reading all the replies.
I know he has picked the soft subjects and I am trying to get him to take a couple more suited to maybe studying at uni (I live in hope.)
He is adamant that he wants to take Music tech not Music,he will do Eng Lang but not Lit really.
He also wants to do IT more than the other subjects.
So maybe Economics or Govt Pol are the other two to chose from.He is more than able to stretch himself and that is what is so frustrating.