Teen Eating Disorders Thread 7

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

We have managed to fill the previous Thread here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/4471980-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-6?page=40

So I thought I would start a new one.

Everyone supporting a young person with and ED is welcome here for advice (non professional but lived experience) and support.

Hoping everyone can find us...

LittlePickleHead no she's had no psychiatric help. I keep getting told her wfh is too low and as she won't engage at her camhs appointments they can't offer her anything. It's really frustrating as I can see her mental state declining but her camhs therapist just says 'Eat more, it's your medicine' but when she's at her worse mentally she's at her worse for eating? It's a vicious circle.

I don't know if our gp can prescribe or because she's in the system with camhs we're at their mercy.

@Whyisthishappeningtous from my understanding GP can’t prescribe under 18 so it has to come from a psychiatrist but it gets dispensed on repeat prescription through our local gp surgery . However I would say my D is 73% and is on medication

@D1ANA22 i am sorry I don’t have any advice but wanted to send my best wishes I hope the chat went ‘ok’

You could ask for a psychiatrist from CAMHS to see her, they have psychiatrists there for other things than ED. I don't think food is enough medicine for everyone. My DD is also on fluoxetine but that predated the ED.

Morning does anyone have any links for the importance of animal fats?
dd has told me she is becoming vegan from next sat for ten days. I’ve said no but need info to back that up. It wouldn’t just be ten days, she would then be so disgusted with the idea of eating animal products that it would become permanent. I know how she works.

She’s barely eaten recently as it is. This has almost certainly come from her busting me adding butter to her food to desperately try to get some calories in on a particularly bad day last week. So stressed with this at the moment now she wants to restrict further

@Moomarre following a quick search I’ve copied the following article - www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/diagnosis-diet/201903/the-brain-needs-animal-fat

The word ‘fat’ could be a trigger though, not sure how you would supplement the wording though.

Hope you can avoid this possible restriction to your DD’s diet.

@Moomarre my DD has said she wants to become vegan this week too. I've said no way, it's not a healthy diet for adolescents who are still growing. And I've shut down any further conversation. I wouldn't get into the science of it as the conversation isn't coming from a rational place.

DD is pescatarian as it is (but doesn't like salmon 🙄) so I'm refusing to limit her diet any further

Moomarre I live in dread of being busted 😞

My dd has talked being a vegetarian and vegan. It doesn't help that one of her best friends is vegetarian. I've said it can be a goal when she's better but for now she's
much too ill to consider it. I'm keeping it at bay for now but it's always a worry.

@Moomarre also animal products are important for things like iron - although you can get iron from plant foods, it is non-haem iron which is less bioavailable (e.g more difficult for the body to process) compared to haem iron in animal products.

@Moomarre also if you look up essential amino acids, I think there are 20 amino acids, 9 of which are essential. All animal sources so meat, fish, dairy etc naturally contain all of them, but plant sources of protein such as lentils and beans etc do not contain all of the essential ones therefore you have to do something called 'protein complementation' which essentially means combing two sources of non-animal protein to ensure all amino acids are received. I have used this argument to my D by framing it as to get one source of protein you would have to eat two things which she didn't like the idea of as it was more volume of food and in many cases more calories. However I should point out that soya is the only protein source that is not animal-based and contains all of them so there is an exception I guess, but I argued she would be fed up with eating soya-based products at every meal.

Struggling here as I think I have flu (high temp, chills, ache all over, can't get off the sofa/bed) dd also feeling ropey.

I'm annoyed as I wanted to get the flu vaccine but kept missing it at work. Dds been pretty good today at getting her own food as at one point I had a temp of 40 and couldn't stand without feeling like I was going to pass out. She's in a dark mood now though and I'm wondering if that's because she's not been out for her usual walk.

That in my opinion is progress though, at the height of the illness she would have dragged herself out even if her leg was hanging off!!

@Girliefriendlikespuppies im really sorry you feel so rough sending love. Wishing you a speedy recovery

I agree though getting food herself and missing a walk is massive progress. Although her reaction may not be ideal think of how far she is come.

i know too late now but just letting others know my D qualified for a flu jab due to weakened immunity caused by the Ed

I think if you tell your GP you're a carer for your teen you are also eligible for a flu vaccine, I told my GP last week and she said so anyway!

How do you all address bad/rude behaviour? We've been letting dd get away with a lot using the excuse she's 'mentally ill'. Are we doing more harm than good? Should we pull her up on it when she's verbally rude or when she completely blanks us when we say 'Good morning' or whatever?

She's utterly horrible to live with most of the time. Yesterday she wanted taking somewhere at 4pm. I was ready with my coat and shoes on. I could hear her on the phone to a friend laughing. I kept knocking her door saying I was ready to go. She finally came out of her room at 4.40 and said 'Why are you being such an idiot? I was getting ready'. Like a complete mug I just ignored it and drove her where she wanted to be, trying not to cry. If she was a 'normal' teen I wouldn't put up with it.

Blanking her gran & grandpa is killing me. They're elderly and FIL is very ill. They used to look after her a lot when she was younger and they were very close. They understand she's ill but are both devastated at not even being able to be a comfort to her. I'm so angry at what she's doing to them. Maybe I shouldn't have let it get this bad.

Another family member is upset at her for not saying thanks for birthday presents. I've had a barrage of messages about how they won't be buying Christmas presents and I shouldn't let her be so rude etc

It's never fucking ending. Dealing with ED then the fallout on wider family. I have this constant pressure on me to keep everyone happy.

I didn't sign up for this shit 😞

Why it's so hard, my dd was exactly the same, I ignored as much as possible but it was heartbreaking. My dd was very close to her grandparents as well but she treated them with complete disdain and indifference.

It has definitely got better with weight gain and dd is slowly rebuilding those relationships now.

Re the relative being annoyed re the lack of a thank you I would gently remind them that your dd is very mentally unwell and that what she actually deserves is compassion (as does the whole family.)

Although my parents were hurt by dds rudeness they did understand she was ill. The illness makes them selfish to the point where they can only really think about their own needs.

I think having an ED must create a massive amount of internal noise which must be exhausting plus the physical effects of lack of food. Trying to find the energy to care about anything or anyone else I think, most of the time, is beyond them.

@Whyisthishappeningtous we took the view of addressing bad behaviour no different than dealing with a teenager without an ED. Phone confiscated, pocket money stopped to pay for things damaged in the house - it is hard, DD is violent and rude but where to draw the line? Boundaries are being tested and so we hold the line firmly. Even stopped school when things got really bad (we have had the police attend when DD smashed up the house). Idle threats didn’t work. We have seen an improvement in DD’s behaviour - as @Girliefriendlikespuppies said, with weight restored and the passage of time DD’s reactions aren’t as extreme. DD is 15 so we can police this - harder for older DC’s I imagine.

The ED (or the teenage?) behaviour will still sabotage DD’s ‘privileges’ but now we see less resistance and more acceptance of the consequences, it’s taken a long time though.

@why I agree with @D1ANA22 we make it clear that we won’t tolerate certain rude behaviour which is the same for all my girls. However D is not actually very rude she is the most polite of my girls I would say ! She normally just shuts down and doesn’t speak to anyone or sobs. She has a lot of tears which are normally directed at herself though. Saying that we have experienced so intense meltdowns in terms to getting her to eat a meal or not exercise but I treat this differently try and resonate how I would react if I was facing my biggest fear. I feel awful though because of her undiagnosed autism until recently her whole childhood we have labelled her as difficult and told her off for so many things which were clearly not her fault or fair on her so I’m trying my best to support her autism and teach her skills on how to manage when things upset her because I can’t tell her off for a inappropriate reaction if she hasn’t been taught how to cope.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies how are you are your D feeling today

Not great love tbh, temp still not come down and still struggling to get out of bed. I've just told my boss I think I'll be off all week 😕 Dd is better than me but not 100% and hasn't gone into college today.

So far she's doing well at still eating roughly what she should be, which given she's not walking or doing anything is a win. The sight of food makes my stomach turn though and I'm so worried about triggering her as I can't eat dinner or as much as she has to.

Rubbish ☹️

We're working our way through Netflix shows from the sofa and every single show seems to have a very thin lead female 😓 it's so depressing. Just watched Wednesday and the Wednesday herself is tiny, I watched Lady Chatterleys Lover (not with dd!!) and the lead is painfully thin.

Why?!

Looking for advice - DD is 110% wfh and is putting a kilo on each fortnight - she is eating 3 snack and 3 meals, the meals include a pudding. She is not binging - but eating to her original weight restoration plan. This weight gain could cause other anxieties so want to control this - first is to replace high calorie desserts with fruit at dinner times - but DH wants to remove afternoon snack as well as DD gets in from school at 4:30 and dinner is always 6:30 prompt. I get where he is coming from, but I do think the routine 3 x 3 is still important - it doesn’t leave long gaps between lunch and afternoon snack. Maybe fruit for afternoon snack as well, then I worry about the ED targeting fruit at other snack times rather than other more substantial snacks.

Just don’t know what to do and with DD’s rule based eating if we remove something it is harder to put back.

All advice and thoughts welcome.

D1 firstly well done for getting your dd to 110% wfh that's absolutely amazing! I personally would be wary about making any changes like swapping to fruit as it could reinforce the whole fear food thought processes.

Are you adding any fats? That would be the first thing I'd stop doing, is your dd able to make any sensible choices? Is she honouring hunger cues? I would base whether to give less food on these factors rather than the wfh.

Quite a lot of teens feel very hungry at this point and id worry any swapping foods to lower calorie will not be filling enough.

Thank you @Girliefriendlikespuppies for your response. I'm not adding any fats (DD eats a full range of foods after we dismissed her faux lactose intolerance); she can make sensible choices for breakfast and picks her own snacks (morning, afternoon and supper) - she picks her lunch and dessert at school, dinner time I set out for her; I don't know if she is honouring hunger cues - she does sometimes eat randomly but it does feel a bit contrived - she tends to eat by the clock. She does sometimes say she's hungry if dinner isn't ready at the usual time - I do feel like that is a way of the ED to beat me down rather than a natural hunger, but I admit I am sceptical and anxious when it comes to DD's eating.

DH's view is similar to yours - not to judge on wfh but on autonomous independent eating and to start to eat 'normally' (who has a dessert with every meal?). I live in crisis mode - that comes from the early days of introducing as many calories in meals as possible. I'm also fearful of backsliding and any changes leading into DD thinking 'who has three snacks a day' and losing that protection.

Hi all, I've been lurking a while but 11 months into my DS's ED, and with recent regression I am popping out of the ether to say hello. We thought he was doing much better but his last CAMHS a month ago was cancelled due to staff sickness and we haven't been offered a follow up. Previously he was seeing someone every 2 weeks. He is 12. He eats, but is so thin. He regularly pinches his tummy skin and says how 'fat' it is, when there is nothing there but skin and bones. He's gone back to high knee rises when he walks and calf lifts when standing still. He refused some almonds yesterday after an hour's dog walk, then burst into tears and said he wouldn't 'manage lunch' if he ate them. His wfh at last measure was about 95% but he's growing rapidly taller and it's impossible to keep up. He also is triggered by a) feeling full b) any sign of a healthy body and c) any sign of recovery. I know he's riding near the top of the wave and I need to get him down, it's depressing as I had thought we were nearly there and he was showing all signs of being able to make decisions for himself. This is more a vent than anything else. How do we get out of it? How do we ever get him out of the grips of an ED? He seems to like the identity and the attention 'X please eat this' and us making choices for him. Feeling a bit lost

Hi @Mythreeknights welcome (if that's the right word).
I think at 12 and still in the grips of his ED you telling him what to eat is fine. He's not at the point of independent eating and at 12 I would think parental input is still normal even for kids without EDs.
Teen and pre teen boys need a huge amount of calories to fuel growth and puberty. And he is growing which is a great sign but clearly his cal intake is not keeping up and he is sliding back into more and more ED behaviours.
The only solution is to push through the anxiety and gently insist he eats 3x3 a day.
When I did a Beat course they showd the weight gain curve. ED sufferers tend to get to a weight point and not be able to push higher and lose (or grown so effectively lose) weight. Its like a glass ceiling and the only solution is to push through and test out their hypothesis that the world will end. Which it doesn't.
Easier said than done I know.
What worked when things were going well? Go back to those. Take back full control of food is my advice.

@D1ANA22 my advice would be to keep meals and snacks the same but slightly reduce portion size.
It keeps your plan in place but reduces cals a bit.

Thank you for replies and insights re dds behaviour. We'll try and start pulling her up on her behaviour when she's plainly being rude to us, especially when we're doing her favours such as lifts etc.

The family member who is upset over the lack of a thank you has always been hard work. Bizarrely she claims to have knowledge of MH as she did a course at work (she's in HR) but obviously there wasn't a module on compassion..

Welcome Mythreeknights. You're in the right place for support and advice.

Girliefriendlikespuppies

I'm with you regarding women on TV. It's very depressing. We've been rewatching Stranger Things and there's a young lady on there who is incredibly thin. I wouldn't like to assume she has an ED but she doesn't look well. Dd loves her.

Hi mythreeknights sorry to hear about your Ds, are you managing to get lots of fats in? Double cream and butter etc? That's what's needed to get the brain working a bit better ime. I'm not sure he sounds well enough to do an hours walking tbh 😕

Why Nancy wheeler? I'm sure she must have an ED, I saw an interview with her after the latest series came out and was shocked at how frail and gaunt she appeared. I really hope that the people who make these shows do some medical checks on the actors. Ideally they should be a healthy bmi to work imo (would never happen though 😕)

I've been absolutely awful today, temp still not come down and can't get off the sofa without being sick. Dds been looking after me which I feel guilty about but not had much choice. She's been pushing back with food and now saying she doesn't need much as not doing anything. Ugh.

This is when being a single parent seriously sucks.