Teen Eating Disorders Thread 7

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

We have managed to fill the previous Thread here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/4471980-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-6?page=40

So I thought I would start a new one.

Everyone supporting a young person with and ED is welcome here for advice (non professional but lived experience) and support.

Hoping everyone can find us...

@D1ANA22 as @Girliefriendlikespuppies said I would be hesitant to make many changes and go off the whole picture, not just WFH. I don't have the exact studies to hand but will try and dig them out later, but I have read about overshoot and the fact that the brain is the last to get the nutrients thus there is a lag between physical restoration and neural rewiring, but if you scale back it prevents the brain having the chance to do the vital final work, which is normally when a healthy relationship with food is established so eating to hunger cues and independent eating and no guilt or compensating thoughts.

Also after a period of starvation the brain doesn't trust it will get food regularly enough so it is still mentally hungry and will sometimes latch on to food and store it as weight quicker than in normal times, so the body needs to receive more food and gain past that child's set point to send a message to them that they can trust the body again and as it realises this, the body will send hunger signals etc and naturally if followed a child will lose a little weight to reach their set point.

equally, WFH is based on average, and it may just be that 110% is your daughter's set point. Also, their metabolism needs time to adjust, so some children will lose weight or maintain an amount they previously gained.

in regards to the puddings, I would have agreed with you, however after seeing what my non-ED trends can pack away, all of them having multiple snacks and puddings a day and healthy weights. I think I understimated how much they need.

what is your D thoughts, is she self loathing of her body ? does she make comments etc

What is she eating in a day at the moment on average maybe we can help offer subtle ways ?

sorry for that massive barrage of questions, I have just been in two cycles where we have stopped two soon and have regretted it so badly, I wanted to share my knowledge to help maybe prevent others (not saying your D will release though!) one thing a psychologist told me is to trust the process and when you think you need to stop it is too early, you shouldn't have to make a conscious decision to stop it comes naturally, often at a place that is way above a child's set point but they will come back down in a healthy non disorder way, but reaching that point is vital.

Thank you @lovewinter for the insight of your experience. I’m worried that this point is when DH and I might start to disagree on the plan. We have a meeting with ED nurse but tbh she can be quite inconsistent and a bit flakey and it feels like she is experimenting with our daughter. Going share your comments with DH - hopefully the voice of lived experience will top trump the ‘let’s see’ approach being proposed. I may have further questions after we have discussed this.

I've had enough tonight. So many hours of silence or me sat trying to start conversations, which if I'm lucky, get responded to by a grunt or a slight shake/nod of the head. Fight or flight is strong and I want to run away. What happens if I don't bother getting up and doing it all again tomorrow? Not in a fatalistic way, I just can't face getting out of bed and doing it all again, when I feel we're making no improvement and there is no gratitude, or even basic manners. I wouldn't treat my worst enemy the way I'm being treated. But it's nothing aggressive or rude, just totally blank. Catatonic. It's like she's read the handbook on how to make herself as miserable as she possibly can and she's playing the part to perfection. Sorry for the rant. Needed to offload before I grab my passport and head to the airport.

SwattyPie No sorry needed. Rant away as much as you need. I certainly do. I totally get wanting to run away. I'm sure we all do here.

I've had the painful one sided conversations so I don't really bother anymore. I wait for dd to speak to me before trying to engage, or if I need to tell her something important I text her. Mealtimes are generally silent with the TV on and I have my book for company.

It's the complete rejection that I'm finding hardest right now. My friends dc are all doing great and seem to love their parents while dd treats us with such disdain. It hits really hard at times. Best friends dd won a medal at gymnastics and was gushing thanks to her mum for everything she does for her on Facebook. I felt like throwing my phone at the wall.

Wishing you better days to come 💐

Swatty is there any self care you can do for you? Can you meet a friend for coffee (an understanding friend who won't mind you ranting at her or talking about anything other than EDs which I used to quite like!) Could you book yourself a haircut/massage/nails? Could you afford a counsellor or talk to the Gp about what support they offer?

Caring for someone with an ED is relentlessly hard and its relentlessly hard for a long time so you have to look after yourself as a priority. Carers fatigue is real and not surprising given how mentally and emotionally draining it is to look after someone who is telling you they hate you and want to die (using my dd as an example.)

I found a local Pilates class that I go to once a week, it's only an hour but sometimes it's the only hour in a week that's just for me! I still sometimes feel guilty leaving dd for that hour but I know the benefits to my mental health make it worth it.

I've also found the Beat helpline very understanding when I've wanted a rant, can take a while to be connected, but I've rung it a couple of times.

@SwattyPie It's horrible, isn't it? What do you/can you do outside of caring for your DD? If you can't concentrate on a book, at least a walk or a swim? On the airport suggestion, not a terrible idea if you have a partner who can cope for a few days - I took DS to Turkey for a week, and DH took him to Germany. It was good for all of us, including DD, who felt guilty we had had to cancel our family holiday when she was in hospital.

Sending commiserations Swatty. This whole situation sucks beyond belief.

I'm really pissed off as I thought things were going ok - we had a deal that DD could carry on with her planned social activities as long as she was doing everything I asked. We're increasing meals at a snails pace, but she's having 3 calorific smoothies a day and getting an ok amount overall.

However I've just tidied her room and found various snacks hidden in tissue around it. I don't even know how she managed it as I always have her snacks with her.

I feel like she's broken our deal now. How would you raise this/approach with DD?

Thanks everyone. I do feel a bit better today. Had a bit of a moment with DD last night, but she is so apologetic for the whole situation, I don't want to make things harder, so try not to break down on her too much. I have just had a friend over for a coffee, which was lovely, and we've planned a low key Xmas drinks with our group of 4 close friends. I'm getting better at self care - I have found a counsellor and am trying to do one thing every day. Can't concentrate on books or tv though, so going back to old favourite films that it doesn't matter with.

Re hiding the snacks - it's so hard. I think you just need to tell her you've found them and ask her when / how she hid them. Our calorie increase is also a snails pace but at least she's not lost any weight, even if she hasn't gained. Or so I keep telling myself.

I'd love a weekend away with my other DD. I don't know if I'd be able to relax and enjoy it though. Will think on it.

Swatty glad you're feeling a bit better, I don't think there's any harm in your dd seeing you distressed - it is distressing - and shows your dd how desperate you are for her to get well. I've lost it a few times with my dd and there have been times where I've been hysterical and not able to stop crying.

I think a weekend away would do you the world of good, I've gone away a few times and left dd with grandparents and strict instructions! It was always worth it.

I find watching old movies and tv shows and re-reading favourite books comforting as there are no nasty surprises. And I get out for a daily walk or two. Going out at night is lovely at the moment with the houses lit up.

LittlePickleHead ED is incredibly sneaky. I think you need to let dd know that you found the food and will be checking her before she leaves the table in future.

I've now just had a call from DD's dance teacher saying DD told her she was allowed to do dance again and it's all fine (she's been told no dance or PE by the ED team).

I suppose this is a lesson to be suspicious at all times 😣

I'm hoping me having a chat about both the dance and the snack-hiding won't cause a big fallout later...

@D1ANA22 sorry for the delayed reply been very hectic at home! but if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask
www.feast-ed.org/when-in-doubt-aim-higher-what-i-wish-id-known-about-target-weights-in-recovery/?fbclid=IwAR38kUL369BD-SGws0jkaXMcQp9kG6OxdHRZMqcPiaZuXSa1uTJb_2_y3O0

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/hunger-artist/201402/recovering-anorexia-how-and-why-not-stop-halfway?fbclid=IwAR16IHVFpMpKf7JtwCBaAEaNUZvthHA_GUmL6-nZqLpjgKoAZXFc1gu4oWg

tabithafarrar.com/2015/11/overshoot-eating-disorder-recovery/?fbclid=IwAR1TmjA-rDRqXw8kQXlNBF1tFuNeWV1gOhn-J0quruRvm-uvHC2-8VrztyU

recoveringnomad.com/2020/01/12/eating-disorder-recovery-why-im-aiming-for-overshoot/?fbclid=IwAR24dtz-mnYHVs9VFnw5XbR9tye7yQPZ1hJGdXH1sKEgLMEb_OldIFKMLFI

followtheintuition.com/oversthooting-set-point-weight/?fbclid=IwAR3d5HSyTYoPxZMk-rCc9FkvRqy1oxEWXtSqMqluSNpALNHGTZzYGTFrAKM

www.aedraeatingdisordercentre.com/post/2018/02/24/overshoot-in-recovery?fbclid=IwAR1_Yp-zO9njvCF6rHNW8e0A_SR0EhuXO-wm19jTZd6tpU__SS_8MF5S7n0

newplates.libsyn.com/episode-21-state-not-weight-with-dr-rebecka-peebles?fbclid=IwAR0JjBaTEmzBsCdrhQf3vhzA4T_8RbAPvPZd7ttw-pIKquPkPpe3FaXKL94

mirror-mirror.org/recovery/set-point-theory?fbclid=IwAR3BbS32CI5oIIcYj02EtmgDaKD33VW2E5K6ck7QR9a-aTPqK7BPdN91kpY

I feel really silly saying this after reading the above but my D is the opposite she is incredibly clingy, never really leaving my side and when she eats we have to be talking or doing a puzzle or game etc to distract her and I find it exhausting, but maybe I should be grateful she does talk to me. Although my concern is she is not independent at all.

@LittlePickleHead I am sorry about the snacks, I think I would confront her, but also make sure she tells you how she managed to hid them so you know for future what to look out for. It sounds awful but we have had to do airport style checks after meals with my D, rolling up sleeves, taking socks off, empty pockets and no leaving the table.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies oh no im sorry, is it getting any better today ? sending love. I agree about films and TV, I joked to my husband it is worse than monitoring your children when they were younger to make sure they dont watch anything age inappropriate as at least they came with ratings and advanced warning, it just seems to be normalised it makes me sad.

@LittlePickleHead the deception is so hard to take. My DD was so different to usual. It took my ages to cotton on that the ED could not be trusted at all.
I also think you will.have to bring it up. And put some things in place to mitigate it happening again.
It's tough.

@lovewinter thank you for the links. I am anxious about ‘reducing’ food advised by the ED nurse, and at the same time I can see that DD is gravitating towards sweet stuffs - chocolate, cream, crisps - not binging but it is as if she is trying to take control and showing that she is not ill, it doesn’t feel like natural eating. I should be kind of happy, but it reminds me of how complex this illness is. Mentally she is in a poor state and her behaviours are exhausting me and disrupting the rest of the family. Also my elderly parents are quite ill and I am not giving them the time they deserve.

Between the great advice and support I get from here I do feel like I sound down trodden. Things are better than this time last year, and I am grateful that I found this thread - hope everyone is doing OK and have some positive interactions with their DC and time for themselves.

Good morning everyone. This is 'Why..'
I've had to NC.

D1ANA22 that sounds really difficult and yes it's such a complex illness and I wonder how many sufferers are ever truly recovered? It must always be there like any addiction.

Selfishly, I'm terrified that I'm going to spend the rest of my life worried about dd. It's a horrible way to live. My friends dc are all getting on with life and they're doing wonderful things as families (fucking lapland) and here I am communicating with my dd via text or through a closed door and creeping around my own house scared to upset her.

This illness affects everyone it touches. This could very possibly be fil last Christmas and I doubt dd will see him. He's heartbroken and worried sick about dd, while battling severe illness. I'm worried about dh finally cracking once his df dies. He's been incredibly patient all through this.

Sorry to hear of your FIL @BagpussSaggyOldClothCat - I couldn't read and then run. Easy to say but do take some time out for yourself doing whatever you can. My DH is struggling, not sleeping, work now overwhelming him (he simply can't concentrate always worrying about his family). I hang on to the hope that 'this too shall pass' - one day.

When does it get better? Totally at wits end today and DH super stressed with work so I don't want to add more. DD refused bfast and snack and doesn't care that she's not at school. She had her first v v v minimal gain yesterday. I can't do anything and without school have lost my bargaining chip. Is the the beginning of the end? I can only see it going one way. She's so stubborn. I want to run away so much.

I’m with you@SwattyPie - could gave almost written your post. My dd has just said she is now on eating and drinking strike unless we agree to her changing schools😕

@magnummum Considering selling the house and moving to Australia. Alone.

@SwattyPie - maybe we could split the rent.

It's a deal.

Thanks D1ANA22.

Lots of dh's struggling. Mine has work issues too. Hes terrified he'll be on the scrap heap soon. Covid decimated his industry. Dd has completely rejected him. He's pretty much given up trying to forge a relationship with her now and just avoids her because he can't bear the rejection.

SwattyPie is dd aware of the gain and that's why she's refusing? My dd can't cope with the idea of gaining at all and even maintaining affects her. As I've mentioned quite a few times on here, camhs appointments make her worse (me too). I absolutely dread the few days after we've been.

Carer burnout is very real. I love my dd but feel negative towards her most of the time. It's very hard to be compassionate when I see how her behaviour is affecting people who love her and have done so much for her. Absolutely sick and tired of her complaining that she's ugly, everyone's looking at her etc. I know it's dysmorphia but for fucks sake get over it. Sorry - I know that's awful.

DH hates to leave me alone for long with DD - he knows there will be a kick off when he's not there so makes time to be home and around to support me and DD at the expense of his work. I can cope most times, but its hard for him to see his family being torn apart by this dreadful illness and he can't fix it, which is what Dad's normally do.

I'm a bit down in the dumps today. If anyone has any positive news then please share. Not sure if it is the dark nights, the prospect of Xmas (and the thoughts of those pre ED Xmas I took for granted) - but I am struggling.

Take care everyone.

D1ANA22 Christmasses past are hard to think about. It going to be very different this year but maybe next year will be better. We can but hope.

I just wish I could shake off the guilt of letting everyone down. I know I'm isolating myself from friends & family but it's the only way I can cope. I just hope they're still there when I need them.

On the plus side I've been declutterimg and cleaning all the kitchen & utility cupboards. It's been really therapeutic and I feel smug every time I open a cupboard. I came across dd's old Tangled lunchbox which was crushing but dh has taken it to store his fat balls in (for the birds 😆) so I'm happy it's getting a second life.

I'm trying to decide what area to tackle next. Maybe a good side effect off all this will be a clean decluttered house.